A question for Ensar on "organic" cultivated oud vs everthing else

[Igor01]

Hi Ensar, I have a question which may or may not be simple and I hope you don't mind me asking you here. I assume that this may be of some interest to other oud enthusiasts who may, much like myself, not be entirely clear on what is "organic" oud and what isn't.

From what I've read over the last couple of years oud oils extracted from cultivated oud were almost always universally dismissed as less complex and inferior to those distilled from wild wood. It was considered a fact that cultivated trees are often (but not always) harvested while they are just a few years old before the infection spreads more and the resin matures, so they couldn't be expected to produce the quality of resinated wood that is found in wild growing trees.

In your recent interview to Model News you stated: "I have absolutely no interest in the cultivated varieties of agarwood. I’ve always meant to write an article to explain the differences, just never got to it." But now it appears that you are spearheading a push towards ethically harvested organic cultivated oud trees to source your new distillations. Why the change of heart? Did you find a new, previously unknown, source of cultivated trees that were allowed to mature long enough to produce resin of quality previously unseen with cultivated oud? Or did the growers you came across employ some radically different cultivation methods that caused you to have a 180-degree in your outlook? Or is it perhaps the extinction of naturally-occuring trees in the wild?

I am just trying to understand this - you've always prided your products to be not only of the highest quality but also of wild origin, so what has changed now?

Many thanks in advance!

 

[Ensar Oud]

Hi, Igor. Your question is very propitious, and I appreciate you taking the time to formulate and post it here for others to read and reflect as well.

Wild agarwood was nowhere near the place we brought it to when we came on the scene. Carelessly distilled oils which were then most often adulterated. 100% of exports were to the Gulf market, where people are oblivious to aromatherapy and essential oils; they fail to recognize the fact that oud is an essential oil. Hence anything that smells 'oudy' is oud, be it agarwood oil, DOP, sharp smelling aromatics, whatever. We brought a great deal of obsession to the art of distillation itself, with a purism that verged on extreme. (I believe I spoke about this in one of the videos we launched on YouTube and our blog; were you able to watch any of them?)

Now, we always distill 'a few years ahead' of what we sell. So the oils that I was supposed to sell now were all distilled in 2009, just before the emergence of the great 'China Market'.

I went to Singapore in October of this year for a personal matter not related to agarwood. While in town, I thought I'd pop in and say hello to the local merchants and colleagues of the trade. My jaw dropped when I saw the empty warehouses. Just a year back, when we visited in March 2010, there were piles upon piles of agarwood covering the warehouse grounds. Now, everything was all but empty. The wood that had been $20,000 a kilogram in 2010 was now $200,000 a kilogram!

Various suppliers confirmed these facts. Agarwood had experienced a major blow during 2010 by the recurrent appearance of Chinese bead manufacturers, sculptors, carvers and collectors ready to pay literally any price, without the slightest negotiation, for high quality agarwood.

I had not the faintest clue about what awaited me in Singapore. My Bhutanese distillations were happening as usual. After all, we were interested not in the solid wood as much as the dust collected from the cleaning of that wood. So this was coming in steadily. As for my activities in Borneo, I'd paused them out of a personal prerogative to proceed to unexplored areas, especially given the 2009 distillations of Borneos we'd already stashed away for release at a future date.

What I witnessed in Singapore is what led to the 'End of Oud' article, and the switch to organic. There simply IS no wild agarwood left to go around, considering all the players involved now, some of whom are Chinese billionaires with no spending limit. Wild agarwood is history. Whether anyone believes me or not. You shall see it become a universally accepted reality within a very short time.

It was considered a fact that cultivated trees are often (but not always) harvested while they are just a few years old before the infection spreads more and the resin matures, so they couldn't be expected to produce the quality of resinated wood that is found in wild growing trees.

This was indeed one of the reasons cultivation efforts could never live up to what we saw coming from wild agarwood. The quality of the wood was simply worlds apart. That, and we didn't have the added concern of chemical fertilizers, artificial inoculation and so forth. I couldn't imagine producing the kind of oils we did from cultivated trees. But, the move to implement in organic oud what we'd learned over the years distilling wild oud didn't come about merely to keep the business going. It's a whole new chapter for me as a producer; a new challenge. And for consumers as well who, given the current state of affairs, have very little to look forward to.

I admit I was being rather naive when I made that statement on Model News. True, organic agarwood could never yield the same oils we were producing from wild agarwood. But only because we weren't producing any organic oils – yet.

I am now quite optimistic about the future of organic oud. Especially considering the personal involvement in the distillation process which I've resolved to maintain through all our organic distillations. These are a lot more tricky than wild distillations. The wood needs to be carefully selected. Then the fussiness of the organic farmers is far from the degree of artisanal fanaticism we'd like to see.

The beauty of it is I can now be part of the harvesting team and supervise each step of the distillation process in person. From the harvesting of the tree, to the grinding, soaking (if any), cooking, filtering; everything. There is no danger as there was with wild agarwood. The farmers own the land where the trees are located, so you don't have to fear for your life as when venturing blindly into the jungles, not sure if you'll find a tree to begin with; then the worry of harvesting an uninfected tree which will be a wasted effort as well as contribute to the extinction of the tree. The way I see it, it's a win-win situation we're in with organic oud.

Cultivated oud is now where wild oud was in 2004. So it's going to be a steep slope. But I think we already have several beautiful oils to show for our efforts; and you have three of them in your hands as tangible proof for what can be done with organic agarwood.

 

[Igor01]

Thanks for a detailed explanation. I've read your blog and watched the videos and I think I understand the issues you're describing - the overharvesting of wild oud and how the Chinese buyers are driving it, however I am not clear on what distinct characteristics make wood “organic”? Since all cultivated wood (at least outside of India) is presumably inoculated artificially and grown in some sort of plantations, then what other factors aside from use of the various herbicides and pesticides are there to separate the larger body of cultivated oud into organic and non-organic in your view? In other words, what criteria need to be satisfied for you to deem some cultivated oud “organic” and to reject other cultivated wood, even it appears highly resinated as a result of high-quality mature infection and is likely to produce a good yield?

I also imagine that your expertise at selecting the source wood and conducting the actual distillations is a decisive factor affecting the quality of the resultant oil. But by the same logic - wouldn't you arguably be able to achieve similar top-quality results by employing the same strict wood selection methods and fine-tuned artisanal distillation techniques when using just any cultivated oud? Are potentially harmful chemicals from the various 'cides a major concern or are some other considerations at play here?

 

[Ensar Oud]

There are three things to rule out when labeling an oud 'organic'. Chemical fertilizers; synthetic pesticides; and artificial inoculation via Biotech vaccine and the like. Not all cultivated wood is inoculated artificially. The bare minimum, which every farmer apart from select Assamese planters implements is to drill holes into the trunks of the trees. This will trigger natural resin formation, as the tree will fight to heal the wounds. Very few farmers stop there.

Then there are farmers who insert honey inside these holes to attract ants. The ants will swarm inside the holes, eat the honey and proceed to other holes carrying with them bacteria that spreads the infection of the tree. The more widespread the infection, the greater the resination.

Others will take the leftover water from hydro-distillation along with some of the cooked agarwood dust and inject that into the holes in the trunk. Presumably the bacteria that is still found in the dregs from the previous distillation can trigger a new infection in the uninfected saplings.

Then of course you have Biotech. This is the most widespread artificial inoculation method. Yet it is worthy of note that more than an inoculation method it is used as a catalytic agent used to speed up the infection rather than trigger it. As the old adage goes, 'Good things happen to those who wait.'

In labeling an oud 'organic' then, we look for trees that were planted without the use of chemical fertilizers; not sprayed with synthetic pesticides; and not injected with Biotech. In all of Thailand we've only found three farmers whose trees fall under this category.

There are no harmful chemicals at play when distilling oud from trees injected with Biotech. I have an oil like that here which I procured specifically with the intention to study it and see how Biotech affects the fragrance in the long run.

But if we can produce organic oils, which are the closest thing both from a chemical and from an olfactory standpoint to the wild oil, then why remove the process that much further from the way it occurs in the wild?

 

[Oudiferous]

Thank you for these wonderful and detailed answers, Ensar. Good questions, Igor. I had many of the same myself.

Ensar, can you smell the difference between Oud oil from cultivated wood and Oud oil from wild wood? From what I gather above and in other communications, the most significant factor in producing artisanal Oud oil is not the matter of cultivated wood vs. wild wood, but it is the nitty-gritty of the distillation process itself. Is that accurate? In that case, do you feel that Ensar Oud is beginning to prove that cultivated wood can produce the same quality Oud oil as wild-harvested wood?

 

[Ensar Oud]

If the cultivated wood is allowed to age at least five years after infection is engendered; and it is then distilled with proper care and expertise; and it is left to age naturally without any force aging or oxidation, it would be very difficult to smell the difference between wild and cultivated oud.

Most wild oud is distilled from trees that were infected for the same amount of time as cultivated trees, simply because if the wild wood matures enough it will then turn into proper incense grade hard agarwood which is all but impossible to distill into oil. This quality is sold as oud chips, and only the marginal shavings obtained during the cleaning process can be distilled into oud oil.

Yet if you take oud oil distilled from these shavings and compare it with incense-grade organic oud (e.g. Thai Encens No 1), I bet you not only won't be able to tell the difference, you'll opt for the Encens as the superior oil. So yes, the nitty-gritty details of what goes into the stills, how long it is soaked, what temperature it gets cooked at; does the steam pass through stainless tubes or copper ones; does the oil pass through stainless ducts or copper ones; is the still itself copper or stainless steel; and so forth; these are what makes oud oil artisanal.

Are we "beginning to prove that cultivated wood can produce the same quality Oud oil as wild-harvested wood?" You bet!

 

[masstika]

A very good report on Cultivated agarwood. Go to Chapter 12. Lots and lots of interesting facts and new emerging challenges.

http://mail.atlanticbb.net/Session/445094-XfzKsnrCDv56sT6gilkR-kmbcnzc/MIME/INBOX/31290-02-02-B/r,_Rodel_D._Lasco-Smallholder_Tree_Growing_for_Rural_Development_and_Environmental_Services_Lessons_from_Asia-Springer(2008).pdf

One of the interesting challenges posed by the wide emergence of Agarwood Cultivation is the switch and the movement of wealth from those small forest dwelling communities of the Gaharu hunters to the low land where the cultivation fields and farmers communities are taking place and the kind of impact that this is causing on those fragile communities. A dire situation that requires a lot of intervention from NGO's as well as governmental bodies.

A quick question about Thaqeel, I have heard of distillations from 40, 80 and now 100 year old trees. How can you extract oil or anything for that matter from such old resin? and what significance is there if the tree is old but the infection is recent?

 

[masstika]

Please let me know if you can NOT see the report. I am still new at this. Thanks!

 

[Ensar Oud]

A quick question about Thaqeel, I have heard of distillations from 40, 80 and now 100 year old trees. How can you extract oil or anything for that matter from such old resin? and what significance is there if the tree is old but the infection is recent?

Welcome, Masstika. I speculate Thaqeel is from trees that are no older than 20 years and 100% cultivated at that, the infection being present for 3-5 years. Although this is only my personal conviction, we can argue this both objectively (rationally consider the facts) and subjectively (analyze the scent profile).

Rationally speaking, it is unlikely for Thaqeel to be from wild trees as these are practically extinct, and the second and third batches were just launched a year or two ago. Even the first batch was launched after the accepted extinction of wild Cambodian agarwood. For them to then supply who-knows-how-many ASAQ shops with wild Thaqeel oil is suspect.

Subjectively speaking, the scent profile of Thaqeel is identical to Cambodian crassna trees cultivated in Thailand. The scent is so uniform it could only be plantation oil, which can be produced at large while maintaining the scent profile. Wild oils display wildly differing scent characteristics from batch to batch, just as the trees differ in the jungle in species, subspecies, age, infection, degree of resin formation, and so forth.

The only time I smelled wild Cambodian oud was when my distiller went into his shrine and pulled out a few vials he kept there as tokens of religious piety. I offered him whatever he wanted for them, yet he declined to sell them to me saying, 'Not everything is money'.

These oils varied drastically in fragrance profile to the cultivated oils we see coming out of both Cambodia and Thailand. I am not saying they are superior, they were just so different to anything I'd ever smelled before it's impossible to describe. The pitch, the body, the notes; all was extremely different to cultivated Cambodian oud.

Do I believe we can distill the likes of these oils from plantation raw materials? Absolutely. If it weren't for the sheer age of these 15-20 year-old oils I would say both batches of Thai Encens are superior, simply due to the ultra strict selection process, then the meticulous distillation; just the way they were handled makes a huge difference.

Lastly, I know exactly how the thickness of Thaqeel came about. It is a 'house secret' of one of the great Thai distillers who will not appreciate me sharing his technique, which is why I am not at liberty to discuss it here.

However, you have a 'thaqeel' oil right in your hands, Masstika. Although not as thick as the ASAQ oil, can't you tell the Encens Khmer was distilled in the same fashion?

 

[Igor01]

Thanks for your detailed explanation of what in your opinion makes an oud "organic", excellent information! Threads like these deserve to be stickied an used as reference.

I'd like to offer some points on the Thaqeel discussion though. Firstly, as far as I know, it was not sold in all the ASAQ shops - only in a couple that cater to wealthy Saudis. Secondly, there's no proof that there was more than 1 distillation - other than what somebody said. Thirdly, ASAQ is perfumer to the Saudi Royal Family - they have a reputation to uphold. Not everything they have contains synthetics though I am sure the lower end oils do. I can smell them. But it's entirely likely that their higher end oils are every bit as pure and high quality as they claim. It's also entirely possible that Thaqeel was distilled from an 80 yr old tree. Since we don't have undisputable evidence to either prove or disprove ASAQ's claims - wouldn't all opinions we can offer here on this subject be speculations at best?

 

[Ensar Oud]

Of course they are only speculations, which is why I prefaced my observations with "I speculate" and "it is my own personal conviction". Moreover, nowhere did I say the Thaqeel is of poor quality, or state anything derogatory about the oil itself.

Only it's obvious to me as a producer what type of wood it was obtained from and how it was treated for it to attain the thickness and scent profile it displays. Speculation, yes; but experience points to certain dots which if you connect them, you get an oud that smells, weighs and sticks like Thaqeel. Beautiful oil, no doubt, and one that I wear regularly (my own version), just one I would never see as coming from wild 80 year old trees, given my firsthand experience producing extremely similar, if not identical oils.

 

[masstika]

I can only provide an "opinion" and that is from a very very limited exposure to Thaqeel thanks to the generosity of a kind friend. It is ridiculously thick and that is to prove that it is pure, like no water added as in honey, and that it is old (water has evaporated). However what I found to be brilliant about it was not that it is harvested from such old trees (If that was true) or that it is thick but rather that it hit that "signature" smell that is Intrinsically Saudi and by default Meccan. if you were to make any person young and old, poor and rich from the Euphrates in the East to the Moroccan Atlantic coast in the west, smell this Oil they will easily identify this smell is being from Saudi Arabia or one that is from Mecca. I would dare say that it is a signature smell as much as the Coca Cola sign. The older generation in Saudi do not really care whether something is Pure Oil or other additives have been added to enhance the smell as Aromatherapy have not taken hold in there yet.
It would also not be constructive to compare Thai Encens I with Thaqeel IMHO. I don't want to say it's like comparing apples and oranges for one is purported to be old and thick pulsating with wisdom and the other is young and bright shimmering with life and action. Oud oils are like people in the sense that it takes a while to get to know someone and just as you thought you figured them out they come up with a new transformation that keeps us guessing. So I still have not met Encens I properly as I have decided to let it age for couple of years.
I had suggested vainly at one point to give like an Oscar awards for the Best Oud annually and then I realized the futility of such endeavors. Now I love all my Ouds equally, each for what they have to offer.

 

[AbuAyoob]

If love is the seasoning that makes soul food taste so good, then I can imagine that it is love being placed into the deggs to produce a heavenly oil regardless of it's origin! In my case it takes a stinky pair of shoes and socks to placed into the degg

Seriously though I think that love is the most important ingredient even more important than the wood itself, because without it we would not have the calibre of oils being produced today.

 

[Igor01]

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification, Ensar.

Just curious - are you referring to Encens Khmer as your own version of Thaqeel? If yes, what similarities do you see between the two? I will admit to being very inexperienced in analyzing oils and picking up notes in ouds other than the handful of those I am very familiar with, and I haven't been able to spend any meaningful amount of time with EK yet, but I am not sure I see a lot of parallels between EK and Thaqeel, other than the fact they both have somewhat muted and reserved top notes (was EK subjected to extra oxydation like you think Thaqeel was?) and some underlying Cambodian sweetness. But these two, to my amateur nose anyway, are not much alike. How would you describe what EK smells like to you?

I think what draws many to Thaqeel is its deceptive mellow character, which takes one by surprise as it unexpectedly blooms into lucious and full bodied sweetness at the heart and vapoury resinous aura at the top as the oil warms up on wearer's skin. To me Thaqeel is sweet, but without that in-your-face sickly sweetness of acetone and rotting fruit often found in lesser Cambodi's. It's reserved yet not withdrawn. It's mellow but alert. It's lucious and decadently rich yet fully composed and full of dignity.

I recognize that I may be completely off the mark here and I certianly don't want to come across as being argumentative, that's not my intention at all. I sincerely welcome the the opportunity to discuss these with you and applaud your patience and willingness to share your insights so openly.

 

[Ensar Oud]

Thank you so much Masstika for that heartwarming post, I feel exactly the same way about oud. No oud can be 'bad', so long as it's pure. If you see a tree collapse with a crash after the trunk has been sawed off, you would never subject oud to such superficial criteria as your 'palate'. Oud is holy.

I have an empty vial of a Timor oil I've kept since 2007. I never apply it, and I've used up most of it in a parfum I made, but still the wee amount that remains in the bottle is a scent I'd always like to have around. It is the earthiest fragrance imaginable, with a rooty woody heart that is just sublime.

Igor, I wasn't referring to Encens Khmer as my version of Thaqeel, just as one of the 'thaqeels' that I've produced; i.e. via the same distillation technique Thaqeel was made. I was referring to another oil which remains unreleased as of yet.

To me Khmer smells extremely powdery, almost tobbaco-y, with a sweet pollen overtone, dark honey and lush vanilla flavored ultra mellow Havana cigar smoke permeating the orchestration. It's a lazy man's oil. A daily swiper unlike some sublime Hindis you just can't wear unless it's a special occasion. I've never smelled anything more powdery or soporific. It's like getting lost in a trance of Cuban cigar smoke laced with vanilla, powdered wood, Peru balsam, ambery labdanum absolute, the united notes of amber and fine cigars in oud lulu land.

Whereas the Thaqeel is somewhat fruity, from what I remember. It's a lot more linear than Khmer, slower to unfold, equally addictive, not as sleepy or relaxed, more upbeat. I don't remember any berries.

I stand corrected about the 'extra oxidation' speculation on Thaqeel. I witnessed this in another franchise's oil that was very similar to Thaqeel, and it threw me off. While it remains possible that Thaqeel was subjected to the same amount of oxidation (as oxidation is the rule in the Gulf) we cannot prove that it has, since the technique I have now witnessed with my Thai distiller can induce the same stickiness as leaving the oil uncovered for a decade and change.

 

[Oudiferous]

Thank you, Ensar, for sharing your experience and knowledge with us here. I've updated my blog to accurately represent your most recent comments on Thaqeel. I am continually amazed at how much is effected by the distillation process.

And all of this Thaqeel talk made me put some on. Very fruity and sweet oil!

 

[masstika]

I was watching a program yesterday about the disappearance of the rain forest in SE Asia. Portion of the program was shot on location in Borneo where the problem was Palm tree oil plantations; for miles after miles they extended into the horizon where Rain Forest used to exist few years before. Is there a risk of similar danger posed by massive Agarwood Plantations to meet the raising demands from the Middle East and China or is most of the efforts small and far in between?

 

[Ensar Oud]

You can't compare the demand for oud oil to the demand for food oil – although if you ask me, it should be the other way around.

You could say 'most of the efforts are small and far in between'....