Chugoku Senkoh: The Truth

Discussion in 'Oud Oil' started by ~A Coburn, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. ~A Coburn

    ~A Coburn Well-Known Member

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    I like to lay low. I like to let the quality of my work speak for itself and not worry about what others are doing or saying. However, when something is placed before me that is wrong, I must do something about it. And recently someone messaged me with a concern about a beloved oil of theirs, Chugoku Senkoh, and a link to a thread from Ouddict with unfounded claims about its authenticity.

    As a proud owner, they were perplexed and naturally concerned by the claims that it’s not wild...

    A single doubt is enough to ruin an entire experience, even if the claims are vague and completely unfounded, and those that whisper doubts are fully aware of this.

    Many are also aware that a particular forum exhibits characteristics of its name: half-truths and fallacies are being spread along with opinions as facts, and draconian rules implemented to besmirch the reputation of the main man responsible for the popularity of artisanal oud in the "West," the man who defined the niche as we know it today, my brother and colleague, Ensar.

    One of the best and most enjoyable aspects of oud is the personal and subjective nature of individual experiences, however when guilds of plagiarists are formed to influence newcomers to the scene to buy their oud and believe their rigged “awards” and lies, something has to be said, and those that don't identify with the habits of a junkie, those with a shred of moral decency and ethics remaining should stand up for what's right, and not participate in such spite and backbiting, for the betterment of your wellbeing if not your very soul...

    To this day, the founding members continue their vendetta against Ensar Oud, degrading the quality and claiming others are superior, while having vested interest in them and to satiate their appetite for Ensar’s flesh.

    Because most people simply can’t purchase the upper echelon of Ensar Ouds to experience for themselves, they take the accusations as truth, when it couldn't be further from it. If all you've ever experienced of Ensar Oud is the Organic and Wild categories, you're missing 90% of what defines Ensar's aesthetic. Of course there will be regional profile similarities between Ensar Oud organics and others, but past the 1st hour, or sometimes after the first 10 minutes, the difference is clear.

    I took a moment to look at the thread that was shared with me, and two things immediately stood out. The first being that another distiller is informing individuals privately about the so called deceitful practices of Ensar Oud. Doing so in private conversations ensures the claims cannot be refuted, which he is literally banking on...

    The second point that stood out is the accusing party who again has vested interest in vendors on the forum and a very public vendetta against Ensar Oud claims that it "cant' be wild" while not being able to say why under the auspices that it'd stir up controversy.... A vague whisper casting the shadow of doubt... Who does that remind you of?

    Surely the "controversial" information would be the most relevant, pertinent and beneficial information to the subject at hand and I'd love to hear the facts which the accusation is based upon.

    They point the finger of "controversial marketing" but how many have now thought, "I should try this other oil and see for myself"

    @Rahel A. well, did it pay off? Have you reaped the reward of the whisperer?

    I simply cannot stand by and watch as unsuspecting people with a passion for scent fall prey to vendors peddling average oud as “artisanal” and so I must call you out on this and I pray that rather than feeling spite you turn back and find a better way of approaching matters rather than slander and plagiarism.

    @everyone For context: Rahel is the man behind a new oud company that is rephrasing and simplifying Ensar Oud write-ups while claiming to have equivalent oils, yet just a year ago he sat with Ensar at the OudFest on the afternoon of October 28th in Westminster, London, without being able to clearly discern a Hindi from a Thai from a Borneo... (I'll post a clip of exactly that). Which considering that level of discernment now makes complete sense why he'd think his oil compares to Chugoku Senkoh...

    Would it not be for the fact that you'd have to buy his oil to experience the difference I'd suggest you compare for yourself, but in the end, that's what they want you to do...

    For those unfortunate enough to have gone for it, experience the difference yourself, and see which lasts beyond that first hour...
     
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  2. ~A Coburn

    ~A Coburn Well-Known Member

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  3. Rozaria

    Rozaria New Member

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    hey lol

    funny that dude saw this post and used the video to promote selling his oil :)

    ""So it looks like this oil has created a bit of a stir... but this is an oil that will surprise even the most experienced Oudhead and does not conform to the usual norms of Oud oils. It confused me when I first came across it and smelled the Chugoku Senkoh/Zenensis (call it what you want, its the same thing) as can be seen here in this video. My father-in-law who has been in the industry for generations since well before the 1940s could not discern the origin.
    So I am making a challenge... go over to the Zenesis Challenge thread for more details!!!! """
     
  4. ~A Coburn

    ~A Coburn Well-Known Member

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    *face palm*

    I thought the video was self-explanatory, but it looks like I need to slow it down a bit for some, as they clearly missed the point.

    Chogoku Senkoh IS Indian; Hindi as some call it... and in the video he's not smelling Chugoku Senkoh... Ensar told him directly "No" not Indian...

    The point in the above video is that Indian and "T-rat" oud smell nothing alike. Typically even newbies can discern the difference... and if those regions are similar to you, what else might you be missing?

    Rahel, you might want to think twice before demeaning the race of an individual who against all odds made something out of himself calling him an 'Albanian immigrant....' Just like many fraudulent oils show their true colors after time I see yours are blossoming nicely. Before this I really didn't have a problem with you and though it's unfortunate that you were the catalyst of my outburst, I'm glad this has happened as it has brought up a number of points that seem to need clarification about Ensar and what his role is and involvement in distillation and the place and status he holds in the history of artisanal oud.

    I had assumed that given all of the third party information available that these details were clear and my advice for anyone just starting is to do your research. Using a single source for your information will have you ending up sounding like the sheep from animal farm, all chanting "Harry Potter."

    I get it though, when you experience the upper echelon of Ensar's Ouds you might well think it some kind of magical elixir and that Ensar is a magician =)

    Many of those who have fallen into the unfortunate zealot mindset get all they know from a certain forum and have the same narrative about Ensar initially sparked by a few jealous founders that accuse him of fantastical stories; but the difference between Ensar and many of those vendors is that he actually has lived out these dreams and fantastic stories...

    Many of the vendors that have sprung up over the last 3 years attempt to tell the same story while only ever visiting a distillery for Selfies.... Perhaps out of their jealousy or maybe just delusion they believe Ensar fabricates the details of his works and thus that it's ok for them to do the same thing, but sorry guys; as unreal and insane as it may sound Ensar has done, and continues to do all those things that he says...

    Many times I can't believe it myself, and I'm sitting right there...

    To help out those who are now genuinely confused, and that have more than an addict's attention span, have a look at the following articles from third party sources and see for yourself what Ensar says when asked about how he came to his oud journey at the turn of the century, and about his role in the many distillations.

    Read this article with Ensar explaining his coming to oud and his early days manning the pots, and this one and this one about his role as a designer and producer... The latter article also addresses the bizarre perspective that given Ensar grew up in New York that he somehow can't know or experience oud like those with a 'family history' in it...

    As for those that have already cast their judgement and rather blindly join the chanting ranks of Harry Potter enthusiasts than to do a bit of independent research with objective reasoning: Ensar has never claimed to distill all of his oils, just take one moment to reflect on Kambodi 1976, and Oud Royale 1985...
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
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  5. Geo

    Geo Member

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    I have seen a bit about this on another forum and got to say it’s disgusting to hear a man talk bad about another and trying to tarnish his reputation. Oudbase comes across very bad in all this and I believe it says a lot about his character.
    Also seen oudbase being called out on the other forum but that post was deleted very quick, seems the owner on the other forum is very biased towards oudbase.
     
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  6. ~A Coburn

    ~A Coburn Well-Known Member

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    I fully agree, and perhaps I too should have been more delicate when approaching the situation as this particular individual and this occurrence is just the catalyst in a series of unfounded claims and attempts by the whisperer who instigates these vendors to begin with.

    The founder and director of the infringements on decency: Snowball himself who gets all the sheep chanting, believing his narrative because in the end let's face it, you'd rather believe something unattainable isn't really that great anyway... that LS-500 goes from point a to point b just like my Corolla so anybody in their right mind wouldn't spend that kind of money on just a car... no matter the materials that went into it...

    Sure I'll test drive it and give it to me you better believe I'd wear it, but I'm driving off the lot with an all rounder like Chugoku Jinko.
     
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  7. Ensar Oud

    Ensar Oud Well-Known Member

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    It’s the easiest thing in the world to write descriptions of oud oils that explain how you'll spare us all the distillation details — when you don’t know the first thing about distillation.

    When given a swipe, your nose sniffs blindly and tells you ‘Hindi’ and ‘Trat’ belong in the same sentence (awkwardly articulated while smelling a Borneo).

    At such a level of olfactory sophistication, it’s easy to say that a certain oud transcends regional profiling; that it’s a chameleon, a shapeshifter, oud that’s unrecognizably unique. Naturally, when you can’t smell the difference, you default to similarity — even when vanilla apparently smells like pink pepper.

    I guarantee you most people will sit down in front of Jiro and not taste the difference between his and Safeway’s sushi. I know people who honestly think brewed coffee and a sachet of Nescafe taste pretty much the same. Compared to Starbucks', have you tasted the matcha they serve in Tokyo?

    Someone once pulled the same stunt with Purple Kinam, and his claims were backed by the same cohort whose only ticket to fame is by imposter-comparing generic oils to truly great ouds: “It smells just like Purple Kinam.”

    People quickly saw — and smelled — it for what it was: a marketing gimmick to make a name for themselves when they have no experience or expertise to back up their claims.

    You didn’t even need to smell that oud to know it was a farce: its retail price would not even cover the production cost of Purple Kinam, i.e. the grade of agarwood distilled must necessarily be inferior… by a long shot. And the smell proved it to anybody who can tell the difference between Jiro and City Wok; between a cup of 3-in-1 and a proper brew.

    See, here’s the thing: if someone’s new to oud — when only a year ago they couldn’t even discern between a Hindi, a Thai, and a Borneo — they shouldn’t be too cocky with their claims. When they’ve never handled a single batch of agarwood, couldn’t tell where the condenser ends and the beaker begins, they should assume that perhaps their nose still carries a bit of baby fat.

    Here’s where they get duped (so watch out you don't):

    Obviously, there’s a shared DNA that runs through different oud oils. For the most part, ten Indian ouds will all be recognizably Indian. Ten Borneo ouds lined up will be recognizably Borneo. In fact, to a newbie, they’ll all smell the same, even the Hindi and the Borneo.

    And here, I’ll prove it to you:

    https://ensaroud.com/product/chugoku-jinko/1076

    And yeah… the price. I’ll confess, this is to give a guy who deserves it a kick in the balls. Otherwise, Jinko would have cost you $155 more. But his screw-up is your Black Friday, so order now while my blood is boiling and I refuse to let the oud world deal with yet another grandiose claim spewed in bad taste. By all means, still get that one, but compare it to this — then you’ll smell what I mean…
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
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  8. ~A Coburn

    ~A Coburn Well-Known Member

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    SOTD: Chugoku Jinko
     
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  9. Geo

    Geo Member

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    Just put my order in for Chugoku Jinko today. Really excited to try this one :)
     
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  10. Heartistry

    Heartistry Member

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    Lets us know Geo I my self trust my Intuition even if my nose is young. And I have had that one in my cart. Waiting for when I may make another purchase.

    This is all very interesting. And excited to learn. Thank you for all your guy's transperancy. It helps a new nose like mine, find trusted guidingship.

    You give me cannabis, with over s decade of experience. And legal breeding as well as legal hemp growth with phenomenal hunting of terpenes, I can pick out specific lineage.. You give me, criollo cacao from Columbia, regions Valenzia, and auraco. I will notice the difference it taste from Peruvian and or Dominican republic cacao beans .

    I trust the sensory systems of humanity to be able to be refined, even past subjective experience, to noticing true tangible physical locational attributes. Like ensar said, sometimes you'll find a oud, that transcends its origins, and that may be a craft and art from the distillar themselves, to reach such a reality. As sometimes you find Peruvian bean grafted on criollo tree trunks, and get some unique peruvian bean that sits next to many criollo cacao beans. Artistry is artistry and there in oud and even other context, everything has not been learned. Even the most masterful artisan, is still a master in learning and in that knows to continue to push their ability to transcend there art into better refinement.

    Thanks again for this conversation you all.

    Bless!
     
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  11. JohnH

    JohnH Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi folks, it's been a while.

    My curiosity got the better of me so I actually emailed about getting a $10 cheaper .2 sample for the challenge.

    Hi john, thank for your email. There’s a couple of things I need to inform you about In regards to this price offer.
    The first thing is in order to complete this challenge you’ll have too write up a review and post it on ouddict and
    a video testimonial, you don’t have to show your face you can just show the bottle.


    So, there you go. Make of that what you will.

    I said my bottle of CS only had a handwritten label and then politely declined the offer.

    Best wishes to all.

    John
     
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  12. Geo

    Geo Member

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    I bet if someone was to dislike the oil and post it on ouddict forum, that post and person would be deleted.
    I joined that forum about a year ago and bought sample packs from various vendors. Almost right away the owner sent me his number and said give me a call. I did and right away he done nothing but bash another seller putting all his oils down while boasting about his. I found this very strange especially when he always seemed to be good friends with this person on the forum and they know each other personally.
    Now i dont bother with that forum the owner is as false as they come and that oudbase guy just doesn’t come across as a genuine person also.
    I have met a few very nice people on that forum, its just a shame its run by a untrustworthy person.
     
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  13. JohnH

    JohnH Moderator Staff Member

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    Let those who want to give BS just give it.

    Let their noise fly by your ears like the wind flies by the mountain tops.

    Sticks and stones...
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
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  14. ~A Coburn

    ~A Coburn Well-Known Member

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    @JohnH so the competition is supposed to be for those who independently own Chugoku Senkoh?
     
  15. JohnH

    JohnH Moderator Staff Member

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    I think to get the reduced priced sample you have to prove you own Chugoku Senkoh so you can do the 'challenge' and video review to be posted on ouddict.
     
  16. ~A Coburn

    ~A Coburn Well-Known Member

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    I trust the conveniently anonymous individuals who take him up on that will also share who they got their Chugoku Senkoh from? LoL, anyhow, I'm glad this happened because Chugoku Jinko emerged out of the vault as a result of it =)
     
  17. JohnH

    JohnH Moderator Staff Member

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    I think @Oudamberlove has been offered a free sample of 'Zenensis' even though he only has a 'foggy' memory of the scent of a Chugoku Senkoh sample he had around a year ago and then passed on. It seems that in this instance he actually meets the criteria of the comparison 'challenge'.

    Sorry to bring this up here @Oudamberlove but I thought it was worth mentioning. Hope all's well with you.

    Adam, sadly my oud buying days are pretty much over so I'll just look forward to reading the reviews of Chugoku Jinko!
     
  18. Geo

    Geo Member

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    Big thank you to everyone at Ensar Oud. Fantastic service super fast delivery and a few free samples :) cant wait to try them all. Starting the new year smelling great E29E62B5-87AE-485A-9925-54BB9314D3D5.jpeg
     
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  19. Oudamberlove

    Oudamberlove Well-Known Member

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    @JohnH

    You are correct, I was offered an unsolicited free sample of Zenensis.
    I Pm’d Rahel, and explained that I no longer possess my sample of CS. Therefore I would not be a good candidate to participate in the challenge.
    He understood my concern and agreed.
    What I do remember is that CS did not win me over, otherwise I would have bought a bottle at EO or from Jen when she sold hers. Btw, Jen sent me the sample.
    I remember more Assamugo Senkoh, MZM gave me a whole .3ml sample when I bought his Sultan Afnan. My finger was constantly on the trigger for Assamugo, but it sold out rather quickly.
    I’ll tell you what recently won me over....Satori Fusho!
    It opens with aged liquor over an oudy Thai, very soon giving way to the kiss of New Guinea Aloes. It’s like a perfume wearing a perfume. Then the countdown to dry down begins...listen to the symphony! The pot conditioning note is persistent, which carries the melody....the different instruments being Incense Chip Resin, Thai Florals, a Strawberry, and Cymbals of Oud. Beyond the music phase, are echoes begging for another swipe, heck!, a whole bottle! Lol

    But I think that the nuances of how good Satori Fusho is, will not be captured by an individual, if they were not familiar with the Satori series and the awesome PNGs of Ensar.
     
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  20. Brandon94

    Brandon94 New Member

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    Don't start telling everyone that yet! I got a sample of satori fusho with my last purchase, and haven't pulled the trigger yet, I agree it is absolutely fantastic though:D
     
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