End of Oud

kesiro

Well-Known Member
#21
View attachment 587
We've got plenty of trees here in California that have Heartwood of Solid Sinking Grade:p:p:p

If there are plenty wild trees available, where can I apply to be a huntero_O
I heard that some forests are protected. Hopefully the wild trees there will never become extinct, but where forests are not protected, then you can kiss those Mother Trees goodbye, if they aren't extinct by now, then they soon will be, reason is, the population of the Oud consuming markets:confused:
We here in the Forums are hearing about extinction from within the Oud Trade, from Hunters, to Distillers, and China Market Tycoons. For more information about the present state of Agarwood trees, one should contact the Agriculturists of each Region;)
Is that from Muir Woods? I did not know you are in Cali as well. Cool!!
And your post is spot on.
 
#22
Organic is the way to go , and not cutting ma ma trees down is the way to go ( when a Mother tree is cut down that bears seeds , Migrating birds may not eat the seeds any more hence propagating the seeds is eliminated and birds will not be able to poop the seeds during there journey ) , Hunters & distillers should work hand to hand to try to plant saplings so the kids of future generations can bear the fruits , & educate villagers to plant saplings that will help the community and help oud fanatics at the end, ( I try to tell friends to plant trees back home , countries like , Bangladesh, Cambodia , Vietnam , Philippines , Island Nations Etc , ) Hence the future of Oud Looks Prosperous God willing :)
 
#23
Organic is the way to go , and not cutting ma ma trees down is the way to go ( when a Mother tree is cut down that bears seeds , Migrating birds may not eat the seeds any more hence propagating the seeds is eliminated and birds will not be able to poop the seeds during there journey ) , Hunters & distillers should work hand to hand to try to plant saplings so the kids of future generations can bear the fruits , & educate villagers to plant saplings that will help the community and help oud fanatics at the end, ( I try to tell friends to plant trees back home , countries like , Bangladesh, Cambodia , Vietnam , Philippines , Island Nations Etc , ) Hence the future of Oud Looks Prosperous God willing :)
exactly, me not very happy reading about wild oud hunting.........................................
 

PEARL

Well-Known Member
#24
Maybe look up CITES.
CITES??? What's that? It would seem as if no one has heard about it, I've mentioned it several times in past discussion elsewhere. The only thing I can surmise is CITES, inoculation and inoculation kits, plantation/cultivation efforts, reports from those who actually hunt like Taha, countless articles and documentaries about arrests, shootings, smuggling, etc, point to an abundance of wild agarwood rather than agarwood depletion by the way some choose to ignore the state of affairs. Seems like an exercise in futility to try to show or prove otherwise. Reminds me of some old, big tune lyrics by Buju(free Gargamel), "Who say that big man don't cry, you'll never miss your water til the well runs dry".
And speaking of the market, there's some things that I've noticed and please regard me if I'm seeing it wrong. What I've noticed is that the majority of the "wild" oils are coming from areas that I consider the last bastions of wild agarwood, places like Malaysia and Sri Lanka, and I see prices creeping up on those as well. Are there still some wild Hindi, Cambodian and don't even mention Vietnam, Burma, Bhutan; yes. But those are few in comparison with the aforementioned regions and IMO likely either old, aged oils or new ones from old stockpiles of wood rather than from fresh felled agarwood. I don't hunt wild agarwood bro, so I could be wrong, but that's how it appears. There are just as many organic/cultivated Hindi oils in the market as wild, excepting for a few guys that make it there business to "find" those old stocks or have aged oils.
Also, as a consumer I try to look at the market from a vendors perspective. What I see occurring more are oils that I call "cook and release" oils. What I mean by that is that it seems the norm is for distillers to distill oils and put them to sale with only curing and no aging or minimal aging at best. That is not in and of itself a problem per se as most of us know a little about proper storage and can age the oils ourselves. But, it does beg the question about long term sustainability and consistently offering products when a vendor may have little to no evident stockpile of a depleting material. We can assume that the artisan vendors have stash away oils, but with all of the "cook and release" oils, is that really the case? It also begs the question of predictability of what the oil will become, will time shows flaws or fitness? Is the freshness masking some inherent inferiorities of the wood used? Did I just buy a dud spud or is this oil really the greater potato?:D
When I look at the catalogs, as well as what I see in discussion of the big ME houses, I have to ask, why are there no more same quality Kalakassi's and Thaqeel's? Some possible answers are that the same quality of wood is not available, and if it is available it's in short supply where its use in composition with other lower grades of wood has to be rationed, thereby lowering the quality of the final product, hence the current Kalakassi and Thaqeel/Kannam or whatever they call it, where they go as far as showing us the percentage on their product page. If there is an abundance, why not use 100%? Furthermore, as far as I know the new "diluted" ones are in the same price range as the old good ones. To be cont.....
 
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#25
https://www.cites.org/

CITES' mission is to protect flora and fauna from precisely this kind of exploitation. We cannot, must not allow our love for the aroma of oud become a selfishness that despoils these trees and further endangers a sensitive species. This is behind my decision not to use oud that is not sustainable. I don't care how sublime it is, if it came out of a queen tree that was destroyed in making it... if it was not ethically and responsibly created, I will not buy that oil. And as much as my limited finances allow, I will support Ensar by using his products.
 
#27
Or maybe make this world into that by effective stewardship of these trees, and playing the long game of planting them and leaving many alone to be what the Gods mean them to be. If there were some way to get them to grow in Arizona... if there were a reliable way to get seeds here, I would do it.
 

Oudamberlove

Well-Known Member
#28
Since the birth of this planet, species have come and go. Extinction is a natural occurrence and has been happening in the billions even before Mankind. Fortunately for Agarwood Trees, there will be no extinction till the end of this planet's cycle of life. It is and will be a profitable venture to keep the species alive. Plantations are already in existence and are here to stay. So the only real issue is not extinction, but just the huge loss of old mother trees. So get the good stuff while you can, we are not harming the species whatsoever, just depleting the older trees that would die-off on their own anyway and end up buried in some swamp;)
 

Oudamberlove

Well-Known Member
#30
Clearcutting forests is what's bad for the habitat of the animals and for the health of the earth. We get a lot of our oxygen from forests. But chop down an Agarwood tree or two and other trees will naturally grow in it's place. Okay, I admit it, I watch the discovery channel:oops::p
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#31
Since the birth of this planet, species have come and go. Extinction is a natural occurrence and has been happening in the billions even before Mankind. Fortunately for Agarwood Trees, there will be no extinction till the end of this planet's cycle of life. It is and will be a profitable venture to keep the species alive. Plantations are already in existence and are here to stay. So the only real issue is not extinction, but just the huge loss of old mother trees. So get the good stuff while you can, we are not harming the species whatsoever, just depleting the older trees that would die-off on their own anyway and end up buried in some swamp;)
The problem is when farmers decide it's not feasible to plant trees and wait 15 years to see any ROI; when they decide it's better to plant palm trees instead; when they see no way to cash in on their venture other than by chemical inoculation of 2-5 year old saplings.... That's when 'The End of Organic Oud' starts to become more and more evident.
 
#32
I was going to post but... Ensar is apparently a mindreader and more or less posted what I was about to say. My only caveat is that I would say that every large tree is a biome just on its own. There are species that rely on large old-growth trees in general, and some that rely on old agarwood specifically. I am solidly on Ensar's side. And on the side of sustainable oud.
 
#34
The problem is when farmers decide it's not feasible to plant trees and wait 15 years to see any ROI; when they decide it's better to plant palm trees instead; when they see no way to cash in on their venture other than by chemical inoculation of 2-5 year old saplings.... That's when 'The End of Organic Oud' starts to become more and more evident.
I agree Ensar Bhaia that Return of Investment of Agar for the farmers is a long time , but I've seen farmers grow coffee under the Agar Tree and producing beans grown in the shade make the coffee taste incredible , not only coffee , we can plant egg plants , Bitter melons and a whole plethora of vegetables & in the mean time ,Agar is growing and time passes by , I've seen this being done in Bangladesh with Mahogany , Teak , Chandan & Agar etc, & when Monsoon season comes & if water goes to high and floods the Agar tree , it does take a Toll on the tree but does not kill It, So Farmers raise the land by 2 meters to try to beat the flooding, We drill back home, no chemicals and no Metal nails , I am against Nails and Chemicals
the ROI for farmers also lies on the leaves of the tree cause Soap and beauty products can be made from the leaves also , Hence growing different crops under the Agar tree would be another resolution to bring in some revenue and food on the table God Willing ,
 

Oudamberlove

Well-Known Member
#39
Да, i just don't get why people do this? where is the market for something like that, oud distilled from this type trees smells really bad.
Peter, I think they get away with it because there are still so many unOuducated people out there, I should know, I was one recently. Even with these Forums, and Artisans of Quality Oud, the news is not reaching far and wide. That's why I count it as a blessing that we are in this circle of Oud Knowledge :cool:
 
#40
Peter, I think they get away with it because there are still so many unOuducated people out there, I should know, I was one recently. Even with these Forums, and Artisans of Quality Oud, the news is not reaching far and wide. That's why I count it as a blessing that we are in this circle of Oud Knowledge :cool:
yes Oudamber, i was one of them very unOuducated also but still remember as a total newbie getting some thai oil from ebay you should see my face:eek: when smelled it was most likely coming from one of this Thai plantations with lots of bottles stuck off the trees:(. as i can remember in the description was mention it that the seller is working with local distillers and plantation owners.;)