Let's talk Oud: a detailed discourse on the various aspects of this substance we love

[Taha]

So I have a problem.
Not oud (that's a given), but coffee. If I had a physician, he'd probably tell me to lay off the coffee for my own good. And I'd probably tell him I'd rather pop some tums to neutralize the acidity instead.

I source single-origin green beans, roast them at home, grind them, and pressure-extract the espresso to get the best cup possible.
My wife thinks I'm crazy. Then again, she doesn't mind Starbucks coffee, so how can I take her seriously?

But isn't that how it is?
Take oud, sandalwood, coffee, tea, wine, or chocolate. MOST folks can't differentiate between a good specimen and bad. And then you have the weirdos who not only can, but they make outlandish claims like "ah, very nice.. roasting the coffee beans to Full City tamed the apricot notes, enriched the caramel, and brought out the cacao nicely."
Huh? Apricots? Caramel, cacao? Yeah right, those posers are just trying to impress us with made-up notes..... right? My wife certainly thinks so.

There's a lot more accessible knowledge on oud today then there was a decade ago. And yet there's much more (far more), that's still a mystery.
What complicates it further is that much of the knowledge is tainted. Often times its not deliberate, but rather this happens because there is too much of a disconnect between the actual source and (many times even) the Oud vendor, let alone the end user.

What I would like is to start a dialogue, and go over some issues, concerns, and facts that only folks with hands-on experience are aware of. There are a handful of vendors who I know have gone knee-deep in oud, and I would greatly appreciate their participation in this discussion. A dialogue on all things oud... the hunt, the pains, the cheating, the wood, the oil, plantation initiatives, distillation.. everything. In a manner that yields TRUE knowledge, instead of a mishmash of facts strung together.

I find that most connoisseur communities have far more 'true' collective knowledge than oud (after all coffee beans are way cheaper than agarwood, so experiments that yield valid/true conclusions, hence knowledge, are easier/cheaper).

Van Gogh, Gainsborough, and Rembrandt were masters in their own right. And yet their philosophies (thus their works) are starkly different.
I am pretty sure (rather, I know) that we will see some differences of opinion about what constitutes "Good Oud". And that's fine (hint: this is directed at vendors!); this is about increasing the awareness of the end users, so feel free to share your honest thoughts and don't get offended if another artisan disagrees with you. If anything, this disagreement I think will further deepen the community's appreciation of differing aspects/'signatures' in the products, between one vendor and another.
It would be great if end users could voice their opinions, concerns, preferences (and complaints!) as well. After all, the jury comprises of the end users. And it is the opinions of the end users that will shape what is brought to the market.

Request to vendors: no advertising please, but feel free to use product examples to prove a legitimate point.

 

[Kruger]

AWESOME! Great initiative Taha... and a great surprise to see a notification for a post on the forum again! I love the coffee example. I know a guy who tells me about berries and this note and that and all I can tell him is that if we were talking about oud then maybe I can participate

I saw a video where they gave self-proclaimed coffee connoisseurs two brews. One was a cup of new McCafe that sells for $5 or something per bag of beans and the other was an 'artisanal' brew that costs something like $40 a bag. Basically, the video showed that nobody really picked up the difference. However, as someone who knows guys who talk about the berries and all that and who can differentiate a cup of Starbucks from the good stuff, I know it's not all pretending. I also know from my experience with oud that over the years I have developed a kind of quality radar that I believe, although by no means fully or even half fully refined, does allow me to tell good oils from very bad ones. As for some mediocre ouds, many people don't seem to be sure where they fit in. I mean some people rave about ouds that to me are really lame and I think it must have to do with taste. I find that tricky. It gets even more tricky when ouds I always thought of as really just bad get praised!

I'd love to see where this goes and hope all you other vendors pitch in!

 

[Ensar Oud]

@Taha: Well… so long as you’re not popping some Xanax to neutralize the anxiety, you’re doing okay, amigo. I think if you incorporate a lot of traditionally fermented foods into your diet (in your neck of the woods they ferment even fruits) the acidity should leave you alone in no time, and you can drink all the coffee you like. I’m no physician but something tells me your gut flora is out of whack, if you’ve got acidity issues. Yogurt, kimchi, kraut & tempeh could help with that big time – not to mention heavily fermented Indian Oud!

You know how they’ve begun to advertise ‘live foods’ in certain high end organic markets? I think oud that’s fermented may well qualify as ‘live oud’ – in contrast to the variety that’s distilled straight up, without a period of soaking. (And I’m throwing this out there on purpose, since you were thoughtful enough to allow for differing viewpoints on how these things should get done.)

There’s definitely going to be bacteria in anything that’s fermented. The only question that scientists are asking of late is whether that bacteria is harmful or beneficial. To my knowledge, the bacteria in anything that’s traditionally fermented is for the most part of the highly beneficial kind.

To further illustrate my point, there was a groundbreaking book called ‘Brain Maker’ by a leading neurologist who specializes in Alzheimer’s. According to Dr Perlmutter, ‘researchers evaluated the diversity of organisms and presence of parasites in people from 192 countries and compared their results with the prevalence of Alzheimer’s disease in those countries. Remarkably, they found that in those countries having the greatest degree of hygiene, in other words the least amount of parasites and microbial diversity, rates of Alzheimer’s were dramatically increased in comparison to those countries in which harboring parasites was actually very common and the gut organisms were more diverse.’

Would I drink Indian Oud the way that I do non-fermented Chinese or super clean Malaysian oils in my tea? I’d be too scared to try! Yet I do think there’s good reason the most legendary oud varietal has been fermented for millennia. And the secret may lie in what the ancients knew that we don’t know today; namely that bacteria are our friends, not our enemies.

I went around a huge circle here, I realize; taking a cue from your acidity issues with coffee and linking that with your stance on bacteria and fermentation! The problem, you see, is that I had quite a strong cup of coffee myself this morning – and now the Xanax is doing its thing – so my thoughts are all over the place!

 

[Taha]

@Kruger, funny you mention McCafe, their espresso blend coffee is surprisingly decent for what it is. It is the equivalent of 'mediocre oud', that gray area between blatantly high (Sweet Maria's) and blatantly low quality (Folgers) coffee. I think its very likely McD hired a World Barista Champion to design the espresso blend (bean origin ratios of various beans that camouflage one another's defects, fine-tuned roasting temperature curve, and sealing/preserving technology).
Now if they used single-origin beans, it would be a different story altogether.

And to tie that into a topic Ensar raised — barnyard/fermention-
I find that the trickiest sub-category of mediocre ouds is that of the fermented variety. Since fermentation opens up many new scent dimensions, an oil that's of an otherwise-modest grade can be bumped up in aromatic complexity simply by fermenting the wood.
To a good nose, of course the differences will be quite blatant. To a good nose, a truly exceptional high-grade barnyard oil (in my opinion, the King of this category is Ensar's Oud Mostafa No.1) can never be matched by a mediocre or low grade barny oil.
However, most distillers do prefer to make barnyard oils because.. guess what.. most noses will zoom in just on the barn factor which is the common denominator, and hence neglect to assess the core of the oud, the OUD in the oud. And so, you'll find plenty of low grade and mediocre barnyard ouds (some even priced outrageously high) which have a cleverly engineered aromatic complexity (as opposed to true intrinsic aromatic complexity). The best way to realize how bad they are is to swipe one of those on one wrist, and an actual high grade barnyard oil on the other wrist. That's when the emperor loses his loincloth.

On a related note, one of the worrying current trends these days, is to just not soak the wood at all. Or minimally (like 3 days). The resulting oils (and I've tested quite a few of these) are so anemic, plasticy and flat, its like looking at a postcard photo of the Grand Canyon compared to the actual experience of going and seeing it in person.
Can non-soaked oud oils be great? Sure, but only if the raw material was high grade (this will prolong the cooking period, up to 100 days in my experience, which then itself acts like a 'soak').
And what happens if the wood wasn't high grade (which is usually the case)? Simple: a typical 4-7 day cooking period, and an oil so boring you could use it as a sleeping aid. To give a real-life example: my Burmese distiller Mr. Wai cooked the leftover low-grade scrap material from the tree after all the high grade stuff was used up for a high grade oil, and although they had unmistakable similarities, the low grade oil was very linear and boring.

As a side note: I always soak the wood, 100% of the time. At the very least 1 week, sometimes 2, and sometimes up to 3. Keep in mind I am talking about non-barnyard Oud (yes, even Borneo ouds).

@Ensar, who needs Xanax when there's oud, hehe.. sinking grade Malaysian agarwood tea, and a drop of Indian oud on the tongue do the trick.
My upcoming trek in a couple weeks (not 'lite' this time but an all-out, sleeping-in-the-jungle, 3-week expedition) has definitely gotten my anxiety building up though. Maybe upping the Indian oud dosage will do the trick.

Ensar, what are your thoughts on these new 'clean' ouds that are showing up everywhere lately? I don't want to use the term 'new age', because that can include genuinely excellent innovations (I still can't wrap my head around how you achieved the aroma of your Chen Xiang Qi). I have a feeling that there may be some misunderstandings about the differences between excellent 'new age' clean ouds (e.g. Borneo 50K, Adam's Ketsani) vs low-grade pleasant/boring clean ouds. I'm sure everyone, just as I, would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this matter.

Hey Adam, are you a member here on this forum? Your name came up, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on some of the topics raised as well.

 

[Adam]

Happy to see you guys here… I thank God Almighty for the opportunity to chit chat OUD with two of my unofficial teachers hihi…
Well what to say… soaked… unsoaked… over soaked… I like it all if its done RIGHT with the RIGHT wood.

For instance, in the place where I stay now ( Rayong, Thailand ) the owner has woods that yields better quality oil unsoaked. Yes it is quite surprising but soak his wood for a few weeks or a month and it goes simple chocolate and frankincense which is quite sharp at the top and very simple at the base ( which I love ) but missing solid mid notes. But his unsoaked wood yields that ultra clear, airy, diffusive Borneo type of scent with a nice fruity/woody opening, very dry, oudy, sweet middle notes and delicious almonds at the base. This generally speaking considered to be a higher quality, more complex, balanced scent profile… one may disagree of course…

Then you got a typical Trat wood (crassna specie, from 10-15 years old trees, drill only and kept for 1-2 years ) that if cooked unasked yields an oil which a simple Vanilla absolute can easily beat in terms of complexity…

So to me it all depends…

 

[Adam]

The question would not be TO SOAK or NOT TO SOAK? …
but , HOW TO SOAK?

Here is an example of inappropriate ( yet extremely common ) soaking scenario I would love to illustrate.. in most of the countries agarwood is soaked in those blue plastic pots… most of end users probably never even heard/know of the fact that very often those blue drums are second hand and previously were used to store/transport very hazardous chemicals… I even heard of some factories in Thailand failing purity test after soaking their agarwood in those blue drums…
Have a look at this:

 

[Adam]

Sure I am not pointing at the vendors here, who probably aware of things like that and even if use those blue pots, not the second hand ones… Also the factory where I stay now stopped soaking in those long ago and replaced it with clay pots…

 

[Ensar Oud]

@Ensar, who needs Xanax when there's oud, hehe.. sinking grade Malaysian agarwood tea, and a drop of Indian oud on the tongue do the trick.
My upcoming trek in a couple weeks (not 'lite' this time but an all-out, sleeping-in-the-jungle, 3-week expedition) has definitely gotten my anxiety building up though. Maybe upping the Indian oud dosage will do the trick.

Ensar, what are your thoughts on these new 'clean' ouds that are showing up everywhere lately? I don't want to use the term 'new age', because that can include genuinely excellent innovations (I still can't wrap my head around how you achieved the aroma of your Chen Xiang Qi). I have a feeling that there may be some misunderstandings about the differences between excellent 'new age' clean ouds (e.g. Borneo 50K, Adam's Ketsani) vs low-grade pleasant/boring clean ouds. I'm sure everyone, just as I, would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this matter.

Trust me, brother, if you're going wood hunting, you need Xanax! I still can't forget waking up in the middle of the night in Borneo a few years back, only to find my left arm had gone completely numb. And I mean pins and needles like I've never felt before in my life. I was alone on that trip, and the place I was sleeping in didn't only not have reception service at night – they actually closed off the entire place where you couldn't get out if you tried. I made it to the front door. Locked. Started banging on the glass. No one. Ran around the front porch to the driveway, to find the only living creature in the place snoring away in the guard's cabin.

I told him I was having a heart attack.

'Get me an ambulance! Hey! Wake up! I need a doctor!'

'Uh, sir… I am sorry. We don't have any doctors here, and I have no way of calling an ambulance…'

'Open the gate, then! Let me out!'

And I took the streets, at 3 AM in the morning. No sign of anyone. I was in a frenzy, looking for signs of people. Anyone I could find. A car finally appeared. I waived for them to stop. They wouldn't.

'Hey! I need help! Heeelp!' I thought I was going to die right there, one of those deaths you see in the movies…

Another car. Again I waived. They couldn't be bothered. I started chasing after the car.

'Help! Please stop! Heeelp!' I thought I was going to collapse. Why, oh, why did I come to this God-forsaken place? I started saying to myself.

I finally saw a gas station. Some windows above were lit. I shouted for help. No answer. An old taxi appeared out of nowhere that seemed like it was going to run out of gas, it was that old. And the guy stopped.

'Hospital! I need a doctor! Please take me to the hospital!'

'Okay.'

The 'hospital' he took me to looked like a pre-WWII sort of establishment, with sick people just sitting around as if they weren't waiting for anything. No nurses or doctors to be seen anywhere. I went up to the receptionist and told him I was having symptoms of a heart attack. They took my pulse and escorted me to the back, to a bed that was easily older than I. I was left to stare at the ceiling for a good half hour. Apparently all of the staff were tending to someone in critical condition, and no one could be made available to check on anyone else. I asked for water, and was given a dirty porcelain cup.

'Why did you come to this hospital?' the man who brought the water asked. 'You are a foreigner. You should have asked for a private hospital.'

'Where is the private hospital? Call a taxi and tell them to take me there right now!'

The private hospital was closed. The entrance had a large shutter that was down, like a storefront. Two ambulances were parked outside, no one in them.

The driver said we'd better try the second private hospital, on the other side of town. So there we headed. No signs of life there, either. The entrance was dark, no one to be seen.

When the doctor woke up, he seemed rather puzzled that I was there.

'What is your chief complaint?' he said.

As I drove back to my hotel that morning, the bitter taste of a Xanax pill dissolving under my tongue was the only thing that was prescribed. He said there was no heart attack, I was just having an anxiety attack… And I swore to myself: Never again!

* * *

I took the liberty to post all of that because you mentioned an upcoming 3-week expedition of sleeping in the jungle. If you gave me the entire jungle, with all of the agarwood and kyara that it could possibly contain, I wouldn't do that sort of thing ever again. It took some time for me to realize that outsourcing these sort of things to people that are far more skilled and experienced at sleeping in the jungles than we makes life a lot easier for everyone involved. I'd stay in the nearest city if I were you, and let the hunters do their thing.

I will get to your other questions as soon as I get the chance! Welcome, Adam!

 

[Adam]

thank you for this wright up Ensar…
very inspiring… or perhaps uninspiring hihi…
It reminded me my Tarakan and Malinau adventure…
It was not as challenging however just as interesting as yours…

Several times I went to Tarakan Island. Could not find any wood locally. I had been told that there are some trees still remain standing inside a tiny jungle located on the island. However, those trees are counted and strictly protected by the government and no one dare to cut them.

From Tarakan I usually take 3 hour boat to reach one of the best oud places in Indonesia - Malinau. First time I got there I was expecting to see at least a tiny town, however it appears to be a very deep "country side". There is no EMS, DHL or FED EX in Malinau. If one decide to send some wood or oil from there he would find it quite challenging.

Thank God I have a good friend who lives in Malinau. He speak good English and know most of the local hunters. Once I asked him to go jungle to find agarwood (was just kidding) he said that it is possible, just need to sponsor a team of hunters. However, it would take minimum 4 days walking deep in to the jungle to be able to see first agarwood trees.

My friend borrowed a motorbike and we went for a ride to search for a black gold. While driving around the town suddenly my mate started shouting at one of the truck drivers. "One of the hunters" - he then explained. The guy stopped his truck, we approached him. He pulled a piece of agarwood saying that there is more in his house and we should visit him in the evening. His village is located around 50 min drive from Malinau. Not much but when u ride a motorbike trough extremely damaged jungle road its quite a challenge. Just before we reached his house I hear a "KLING…" looked back and seen the chain from our bike … like a smashed snake on the road.
The wood was not dry, very little and extremely expensive. We visited few more houses only to hear - " No… there is not much woods these days in the jungle"…
We wanted to go back but the bike was broken and we were told that it can be fixed only tomorrow. Thank God hunter borrowed my friend a mountain cross bike. I did not like it from the begging. Extremely uncomfortable and noisy. But hey we had no choice. So what you think happened? Right after we left the village and entered a jungle road ( it was dark already ) that monster broken as well. I had to walk back to the village and my friend was pulling back the bike. Thank God the hunter gave another bike and we finally escaped from there…

Next day I decided to rent a car ( until today I try to avoid long bike rides… =) and we started to visit many hunters and local traders. In 3 or 4 days we could not find any decent wood. Only few pieces here and there. Many hunters were still in the jungle.

My second trip to Malinau was much more successful. The first or second day we located some super Malinau wood at 300$ per kg. My heart beat rate increased thinking of upcoming "jackpot". Huge pieces, full black, amazing shapes. I touched it, rubbed it, burned it and of course all of it was painted and glued… Heart slowed down and mind came back to reality…

It was ramadan, I as a traveler did not fast, however my friend did and was quite tired driving here and there. Suddenly I have seen a shape of a huge boiler standing near the road. "Lets go back, I want to see… " me saying to my friend. "No need, its probably old rubbish" he replied. "No please, even if its not working I want to look at it…" "Ok.."

Standing next to the boiler I was thinking that this is probably the biggest boiler I have ever seen. It was like 6 or 8 meters tall. I looked further and there was a huge swimming poll (around 10 by 10 meters). This was a cooling system for the condenser. An old man was coming out of this pool after having a bath in it wrapping his body with a towel.

"Asalamualekum" we greeted him. He replied. We started talking.
He inform that the still is in a good condition and ready to operate. It can fit around 1,5 ton of raw materials. It was build in the late 90 and it is the largest boiler in the whole kalimantan area. I was like, oh… that would be good to see this monster in action.
" If you want to use it, no problem, just buy fire wood and pay the workers" - the old man surprised me. My mind started to boil… Where on earth can I find 1,5 ton of GAHARU? Then I remembered the local factory which we visited… about that in my next post… =)

 

[Taha]

Oufff, that must have been pretty scary, Ensar! I've been to a small town public hospital once and "with sick people just sitting around as if they weren't waiting for anything" paints the picture perfectly.
I can't even begin to imagine how many such bouts you've been through, as you've been doing Oud for such a long time. Just earlier this year, I felt the biggest blow ever when I lost about $275K worth of fully carved and cleaned (i.e. fully market-ready) Malaysian wood. Lost another entire batch of wild Thai wood to a south Thailand gang last year as well (my hunters were held at gun point and told to hand over everything).
(those of you who've been waiting for the next wild Thai oils I had promised after Rakoku Jinkoh, well now you know what happened to the wood)

When people go past the 'normal' threshold in this industry, things get nasty real quick. Why am I not surprised you have to resort to Xanax? As a side point, someone remarked to me last month that hey you can really see a lot of changes in Ensar's face as of late. And I have to agree. I have sprouted my fair share of white hairs on my head as well!

I'll never forget this one incident. A gentleman came over to our warehouse in Pahang, and tested our wood stock. He loved it. When he was told the prices of the different grades of wood, he threw up his hands and exclaimed 'Ah, you have Oud everywhere!', and pointed at the surrounding trees.
The trees were bamboo, mango, and palm trees.

@Adam, you better not wait too long to share Part 2 of the story, I bet a lot of folks are on the edge of their seats. Are they in for a surprise, ha!
Your experience in Malinau summarizes the status quo in the world of Oud. Sadly, most folks aren't aware of these 'behind the scenes' facts, so its great that we now have a platform to share them openly.

As a side note, I find it fascinating that somehow all Cambodian oils being sold are miraculously 'Koh Kongs' and 'Pursats', all Borneo oils are 'Malinaus', and all Vietnamese oils are 'Nha Trangs'. And yet, when you go in person to these renowned places... things are quite the contrary. No wood to be found. I myself only got some good Malinau wood earlier this year. And it was from the same tree that was used a couple years back to make another oil (i.e. it was not a new tree).
Adam, your story will probably tie into this issue. Ensar, I'm sure you would have even more to add - I'm sure you've seen your fair share of 100L 'oud' oil barrels marked 'Pursat' and 'Manipur'.

 

[bhanny]

Please keep these stories and teachings going! It makes wearing your amazing oils even that much more amazing. And it certainly makes me appreciate them more!

 

[Ensar Oud]

Can non-soaked oud oils be great? Sure, but only if the raw material was high grade (this will prolong the cooking period, up to 100 days in my experience, which then itself acts like a 'soak'). And what happens if the wood wasn't high grade (which is usually the case)? Simple: a typical 4-7 day cooking period, and an oil so boring you could use it as a sleeping aid. To give a real-life example: my Burmese distiller Mr. Wai cooked the leftover low-grade scrap material from the tree after all the high grade stuff was used up for a high grade oil, and although they had unmistakable similarities, the low grade oil was very linear and boring.

Ensar, what are your thoughts on these new 'clean' ouds that are showing up everywhere lately? I don't want to use the term 'new age', because that can include genuinely excellent innovations (I still can't wrap my head around how you achieved the aroma of your Chen Xiang Qi). I have a feeling that there may be some misunderstandings about the differences between excellent 'new age' clean ouds (e.g. Borneo 50K, Adam's Ketsani) vs low-grade pleasant/boring clean ouds. I'm sure everyone, just as I, would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this matter.

I'm really glad you brought this up, Taha. And I mean REALLY glad. The point I was trying to make about soaking and fermentation was aimed at eliminating any total rule-out of the soak, especially where soaking has been practiced so religiously it has almost become an identifying factor of the tradition, such as in Indian Oud. I thought you were adamant against soaking the wood at all, mistakenly it seems…

You'll both be shocked to hear that I actually am not a big fan of soaking – to the extent that this is possible within the tradition I am working in. Have I done non-soaked Indian oils before? You bet. Would I choose any of them over Oud Nuh? Never.

To me this whole soak thing is like comparing culinary techniques used in different world cuisines. A Chinese chef would never marinade their meat the way a French one would. So it's like using the correct approach in the right circumstances, which is basically what Adam said.

You'll be shocked to find out literally none of my most well known oils were ever soaked. And I mean never. Take Borneo 3000, Kyara LTD, Borneo 4000, Kyara Koutan, Chen Xiang Qi, Royal Kinam, Port Moresby, Purple Kinam, Kynam No 1… None of these oils were ever put into water apart from the water they were distilled in. (Note how the list does not include a single Hindi)

What do you think my Indian distiller thinks of that? I had to pester him for days before we tried an unsoaked run. They somehow believe that soaking will increase the yield (a fallacy), and they're into conservation and maximum 'economic viability' to use one of his favorite terms. Well, I don't blame him. His father soaked wood all his life, as did his grandfather and everyone else who was a distiller in their family, so the notion that we could distill something unsoaked was proper sacrilege to them.

Cross several borders into my Hokkien distiller's bungalow, and you've got the opposite 'cuisine'. Anything soaked is 'Not For Human Consumption'. Not something to be inhaled with the nose. The nose is sacred, because the scent of Kinam is inhaled through it, and Kinam is never soaked. The vapors are coaxed very gently and directly from the wood, without any fermentation; and so of course any oils that we make from this wood ought to be as close as possible to the Kinam heating ritual, which does not involve any soaking. That's how the thinking goes.

I haven't even bothered trying to get that guy to do a soaked 'Hoy An' oud, and I'm happy. They literally consume the oils, as in 'eat' and 'drink' them as Chinese medicine… and they're convinced they would die if they consumed anything soaked

The effect of soaking woods from China, Laos and Vietnam for some reason multiplies the animalics tenfold from what you get even in Indian oud, and I've taken a lot of flak for my soaked Chinese oils without exception.

The funny thing, though, is that once the initial impression of super strong animalics gets recorded by the wearer, over time it somehow grows on them exponentially, and you hear from folks that were comparing Chinese Exclusive to dirty sock juice, years later, wondering if a second bottle is hiding anywhere… History does tend to repeat itself, and the same thing is happening now with Yunnan 2003 and Yunnan Exclusive. Many people are taken aback by the scents and don't know how to interpret them. Why? Because they are soaked Chinese oils that were just released. The barn catches up with you, though

Your point is 100% correct, Taha, that an unsoaked oil spills the beans rather instantly on the grade of wood used in a distillation. Which brings me to your question about the contemporary 'Grand Canyon' postcards that are circulating around Facebook and elsewhere… What can I say? To me, they are not oud oils at all. Take any other essential oil (most are much more linear than classic oud) – from geranium to bergamot & lavender; or better yet, take the other 'wood' extracts like guaiacwood, palo santo, baobab etc... The oils you mention are worthy of standing right next to any of these guys rather than traditional oud.

 

[Adam]

WOW, most of those legends were unsoaked… quite informative and yes shocking =) with Borneo 3000 I could assumed it but the rest… hmmm, amazing.

Well let me finish my small story…

So where could I get 1.5 ton of gaharu?

Before we found that huge monster boiler we actually seen couple of local oud oil factories in malinau.
Have a look at the first one:

Antihygiene invoronment, quite poor equipment and many rubber "triclamp" fittings... Yes this tiny factory makes nice smelling oil... However, just as some fast food restaurants may offer affordable and “tasty" food, but once you go to the kitchen and see the way it's done you probably won't come back there ever again.
Here are the pics of the second factory we found, oops (in the next post, as can only attach 5 pics per post)

These boilers actually located inside a Wood factory. The place where many types of wood is processed. Not agarwood but the wood used for construction, making furniture, doors and so on. There are many different species and most of these woods are quite fragrant. Well guess what... That is where the fun starts...
It is quite often that agarwood is mixed with other wood species in order to increase the yield. Some of these species actually has an aroma that comes quite close to the the real thing. No wonder the guys set up couple of boilers right inside their wood factory, so they won't ever run out of the raw materials hihi ... ok jokes aside.
I knew that I was not able to get 1.5 ton of agarwood in 1-2 days. BUT I could easily get some of the normal wood dust from a"wood factory"... well... not some but as much as I wanted. So I did. Just to see that monster boiler running and to have fun we got 600kg of wood dust ( at first old man said that this would be enough and only after we realised that the capacity is 1.5 ton) and ordered to clean the boiler. It was easier said then done and we had to employ 4 people to do so. To cut it short I let you enjoy the pics.
After smelling the oil we collected I picked up unmistakable note that one may find in many "pure" Indonesian oils...

The moral of the story to me was that one must never give up and underestimate the power of God Almighty. (Just before we found that old man we prayer asr prayer and I asked God to bring us to the best people there, give us what is beneficial and help us to find the best woods... which I also did latter on…=)

 

[Adam]

Here are the pics of the second factory we found:

 

[Adam]

The MONSTER =)

 

[Taha]

Please keep these stories and teachings going! It makes wearing your amazing oils even that much more amazing. And it certainly makes me appreciate them more!

Nice to see you here, bhanny! I hope you'll enjoy some of the lesser known things shared here (and if not 'enjoy' then I'm sure you'll at least appreciate). I'm so glad Adam and Ensar are taking part in this dialogue. Between Ensar's blood and tears, and Adam's wacky wild adventures, I'm sure there are lots of juicy stories that will put some context around the oils we all enjoy.

Ah, Ensar, it seems the mistake was mutual!
Here I was, thinking you always soak, and it seems you thought the opposite of me. Now me, personally, I believe in soaking all the time. Even for 'zero-barn' oils (typically 2 weeks even for zero barn Hindis). But for me, its all about the 'how' for the desired result that I want achieved. I recall discussing my method with Muhammad Taftazani last year, and he came up with an intriguing implementation related to solution molarity. I discussed the same thing with Adam, and he came up with the idea of refrigerated soaking. Yet another guy (I forget his name) emulated a flowing freshwater spring for the soak.

At any rate, I know that non-soaked agarwood oils can be great too (the oils you mentioned are proof enough of that), and one thing's for sure: it only works if the wood grade was high enough.
Ha, yes, I'm not surprised your Indian distiller was hesitant to run zero-soak cycles.
But what I am surprised to hear is that you got flak for the barn in your Chinese oils! Folks ask me all the time if I have any Chinese oils like [insert EnsarOud Chinese oils names here]; they can't get enough of that primal animalic character, the kind that only comes from fermented Crassna or Sinesis.

And hey, don't be so hard on Guiacwood. I've smelled some pretty decent Guaicwood extracts.
On par with mint or lemon extracts....? Sure, I can agree with that.

@Adam, did you get the local name of that wood? I know exactly what it is, and here in peninsular Malaysia, they just loosely call it 'Cendana' (the generic term for sandalwood). It is kinda sorta like sandalwood, but not the sandalwood we know. Its definitely related though, somehow, sort of like Amyris, Muhugwe, or Siamwood.

Here's the problem with most 'standard' distillations, that I think almost no one is aware of. Starting from Myanmar and all the way to Borneo, this particular Cendana grows quite rampantly. It is THE chief adulterant amongst Malay and Khmer distillers. It blends so well with pure oud, that despite my experience with pure Malaysian oud (and Cambodian too), even I have a hard time for the first few minutes the oil is on my skin. Only after that does the Cendana peek out.
So what's the problem? This is the norm! I kid you not. Even with many otherwise-trustworthy distillers who do produce pure oud oils, but at least they will tell you straight up that they co-distill agarwood with Cendana if you push them below a certain price point. Oud merchants from certain parts of the world have a ridiculously low price ceiling for oud, so all the oils they get are actually Oud + Cendana co-distills. This is something you only know of when you've spent enough time at distilleries across S.E. Asia.
Like Adam said, its an unmistakable aroma you find in many 'pure' Indonesian ouds. Personally, I would change that to "MOST COUNTRIES'". In Malaysia and Cambodia, I know this all too well, and in oils from other countries I've smelled it too.

Adam, so you're in Thailand these days, how's the oud scene right now? Last year Yusof trained some local hunters to identify Hirta, and this year they finally started finding it in Narathiwat, Yala, and Krabi. Has any of it made it to Bangkok? I heard of some gang problems, army police encounters (even one soldier who got his faced slashed in half by the startled hunter's machete) and so they've surrounded the mountains where the Hirta is found.
South Thailand... *sigh*.. what a mess. So many painful memories.

 

[Ensar Oud]

I find it fascinating that somehow all Cambodian oils being sold are miraculously 'Koh Kongs' and 'Pursats', all Borneo oils are 'Malinaus', and all Vietnamese oils are 'Nha Trangs'. And yet, when you go in person to these renowned places... things are quite the contrary. No wood to be found. Ensar, I'm sure you would have even more to add - I'm sure you've seen your fair share of 100L 'oud' oil barrels marked 'Pursat' and 'Manipur'.

Yeah got a phone call yesterday, someone with a 30 year old Hindi oil needing a quality check. You don't have to remove the applicator... The minute you untwist the cap, it hits you. That unmistakable DOP aroma that creeps through the plastic in the most eerie of ways.

What the Malays call 'Candana' is referred to as Chanthana in Cambodia. I was shown an old Johnnie Walker bottle full of 40 year-old 'Cambodi' one time in Phnom Penh, one that smelled rather unusual. I took a sample and went to one of my colleagues there. 'Ah, this is Chanthana,' he said right off the bat. That was my first encounter with the slippery substance, many years back.

Let's face it, unless you're manning the pots yourself and checking all the wood that you're putting into the boilers, anything can creep into your oils. That's the sad reality of this market.....

 

[bhanny]

Yeah, I have no desire to eagerly await an oil like I do (maniacally checking DHL tracking) only to get a big, flat whiff of DOP or some blend of "non-oud oud". Nope, I will gladly pay for oils from you guys! I have never once, not a single time, thats right zero, been disappointed!

 

[bhanny]

Soooo...kinda gross..but I talked to Ensar about this. Initially talking about soaking he mentioned that maybe, just maybe, bacteria and other such organisms really aren't all bad. And that our ancients maybe knew something we didn't.

Well, I am a physician here in the US and we have a huge problem with overusing antibiotics. I mean someone gets the sniffles and they want and often get an antibiotic. Well, antibiotics do nothing for the common cold, which is a virus, but they do wonders to make bacteria highly resistant to it and other antibiotics. Another thing it does is wipe out all the good bacteria that live in the gut. Anyone who has had to take a prolonged course of antibiotics probably knows this far to well. We often recommend yogurt with active bacterial cultures or even capsules with active gut bacteria to help prevent complications.

One big problem is there is this nasty little bacteria called clostridium difficile, or cdiff. Cdiff lives in the GI tract along with all the other bacteria and doesn't usually cause a problem. That is until the rest of the bacteria are wiped out with antibiotics. You see cdiff is very resistant to most antibiotics meaning nothing much kills it. When the rest of the bacteria are wiped out cdiff runs rampant and takes over. Massive diarrhea, severe pain ensues. If it goes unchecked it can lead to sepsis and even a thing called TOXIC MEGACOLON happens. It can be lethal and it is hard to eradicate.

Okay, I know, where is this nutty new guy going with this crazy story. Back to the whole good bacteria thing. For refractory or recurrent cases of rampant cdiff, we actually will do a fecal (stool) transplant from healthy donors to repopulate the gut with healthy bacteria which then will restore homeostasis and balance and in 90%+ of cases will cure cdiff. (I know what you are thinking, yes, there are actually stool donors)

Chew on that for a bit..

Okay, don't ban me, I'm new.

 

[Taha]

@Ensar, yeah Chanthana (and virgin walnut oil) have long been the Khmers' best friend. How else would they be able to keep up with the ever-increasing demand for Oud Cambodi? The honest folks were forced to throw in the towel, and one guy I know is now running an English tuition center. He refuses to deal in adulterated goods. You should hear the horror stories his partner has to tell about the oud market in Phnom Penh. Not for the faint of gut!

Speaking of guts... bhanny, wow you weren't kidding! That's gotta be the grossest medical procedure I've heard of!
On a more serious note though, yep I know all too well how the western diet (which is actually more popular here in the east these days, the west has smartened up in the past decade) and western medicine like the rubbing alcohol and bandaid method. Sanitize everything, quick-fix everything.

In the right hands, fermented/barnyard oud done right can awaken the dead, it has a mysterious power. Oud Mostafa No.1 will forever be the example I give of such an oud.
The problem is... most noses simply aren't capable of discerning between low and high grade ouds of the barnyard genre. Ironically, the trend these days is to produce 'clean' ouds. I say 'ironically' because clean ouds are the most revealing in terms of the grade of the oil (i.e. the quality of the raw material). And so, by doing this, vendors who are peddling low-grade stuff are shooting themselves in the foot. Right now clean oud is all the craze, but as soon as noses start becoming better acquainted with this genre, I think more folks will realize which clean ouds were truly high grade, and which ones they wasted their money on.
High grade wood is packed with natural antimicrobial compounds: the oud oleoresin itself. And so, even during the soak/fermentation process, it looks, smells (and feels) entirely different. The oleoresin tries to combat microbial activity, and unlike low grade wood (the soak solution becomes slimy within 2 days, here in S.E. Asia), in the case of higher grade wood the actual microbial activity takes a very different path.
In the end, of course the microbes triumph, and that's why even high grade fermented ouds have the barnyard character. But the underlying oudiness is utterly different between low and high grade. Well, to me at least.

We're going to see plenty of both genres of oud in years to come. I'd love to share some facts and figures from the hunting side (i.e. the actual supply: the jungle), because I operate right at the source itself, so I think I have some beneficial information to share. I'm sure its gonna be an eye opener for many folks! I think it will then be clear why 'wild' oud is different from 'wild oud', and why the former will continue to be available whereas the latter is now on life-support.
I don't want to hog the spotlight though, so I'll only proceed with this if others who've walked the walk, will share their experiences as well. From a business point of view, it may seem like "bad publicity" (hey, businesses go to the extent of fudging figures on their financial statements, just to make their standing appear better than it is, right?), but my message to you guys is: if you lay the facts bare and share some of the embarrassments and fails, I'm sure those who genuinely appreciate the good stuff will appreciate it even more.
My shelf full of fails (over $50K, just sitting there and staring me in the face) is testament to the fact that truly good oud is more than just sending a WhatsApp message to a distiller, and demanding copper or steel for a brew. For Starbucks-grade oud, sure that's sufficient. As for the good stuff, its more than just throwing some wood into an equation of copper, glass, and steel.

With increasing awareness of 'techniques' and 'apparatus' on the consumer side, it can be easy to forget the fact that oud oil is the product of a raw material. The wood.
GOOD oud... it starts with, and ends with... the wood.