OUD during day(wake up) and Night(relax)

Oudamberlove

Well-Known Member
#21
I noticed that as the training moves forward, the olfactory sense seems to pick and choose which notes to focus-on more than other notes. I feel this function helps detect certain qualities in the profile such as harmony and beauty.

I know that I don't sniff an oud to relish the terpenes, and the furfurals. I do however, 'prep' myself for the coming swipe, then after I swipe, I get lost in it's labyrinth and slowly try to find my way out. In other words, I seek to appreciate what the oil has to offer.

Crudely speaking, some oils make you sleepy, and others perk you up, but the myriad of other experiences vary with the oil and yourself.
 

Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
#22
Great replies @Kruger @kesiro. Totally agree re food research and often the money from the party that was put forward for the study naturally skewed the results to their benefit.

I have to say I can't help (despite the scientific in me) to agree that science doesn't mean absolute. Much like what science hast proven (yet) doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The opposite is also true: what research (even peer reviewed) has proven doesn't mean is absolute. We all know of the flip flop stance on tea is good for you bad for you. Coffee helps with xyz and the next study disproves it. Cooking with x oil vs z oil...

So let's go back to experience per individual oil and if perhaps a particular region and or style and or aquilaria species has a known certain effect. Doesn't have to be 100%. But I am sure more experienced

All:
can you share what you find in various oils and their effect on your mood in your future write ups?

@Kruger @Ensar, Would you gents consider editing product page on your site by writing a line on each oil you make that basically with a few words let's us the buyer know what mood we can expect from it? Aside from the mental and hedonistic pleasures in oil I for one also look at it for therapy and somewhat of a medicine.

I see @Taha does this on product page with a single word or two about the medicinal qualities of each oil: harita exhilarating (have to fully agree. The scent on me during evening or near bed time definitely makes it difficult for me to relax and wind down) etc.

Ty fr your considerations all.

Much love
 

Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
#23
I noticed that as the training moves forward, the olfactory sense seems to pick and choose which notes to focus-on more than other notes. I feel this function helps detect certain qualities in the profile such as harmony and beauty.

I know that I don't sniff an oud to relish the terpenes, and the furfurals. I do however, 'prep' myself for the coming swipe, then after I swipe, I get lost in it's labyrinth and slowly try to find my way out. In other words, I seek to appreciate what the oil has to offer.

Crudely speaking, some oils make you sleepy, and others perk you up, but the myriad of other experiences vary with the oil and yourself.
Bingo. I very much relate to the highlighted parts.
I am after exactly that: which oils get me drowsy and which perk me up. Some I find are neither and almost neutral. I am sure the effects are beyond a simple upper or downwer but hey let's at least start with sharing the effects on our mood in future posts.

For me so far any and all gyrinops have been uplifting and energizing. Say time scent. And any and all sinesis or bitter note medicinal note oils are either grounding and soothing (calm contemplative) or downright sleep inducing.
 

PEARL

Well-Known Member
#25
@Rasoul S good discussion. As much as I love simplicity, some things aren't so simple. It's difficult to say how a simple molecule or compound will effect the affect of a complex organism such as a human being. The taste of a peanut butter sandwich may trigger feelings of elation and joy in someone who recalls childhood memories of their mother making them one as they watched morning cartoons together. On the other hand, the taste of peanut in something or merely the smell of peanuts may trigger feelings of anxiety and impending doom in someone who recalls a childhood memory of the first time they experienced symptoms of anaphylactic shock from being exposed to peanuts. In these cases not only does the peanut effect their affect differently, it can effect them differently physiologically and is just one example that shows that it's not 100% correlation between a substance and how everyone will respond to it.

Other things to consider are the classification of substances, dosage and the synergistic/antagonistic nature of compounds. Caffeine is classified as a central nervous system stimulant yet for some it can interfere with adenosine triphosphate(ATP), cyclic adenosine monophosphate(cAMP), etc. in a way that causes somnolence. Also, for some who consume high dosages of caffeine it can produce tolerance and have the opposite effect, as well as withdrawal symptoms when stopped and different effects once consumption is restarted; much like you can wear and oil today and be effected differently when you wear it next week.

With oud oils we have to consider the same things. A particular sesquiterpene MAY be classified as a stimulant but may effect each individual differently. In addition that supposed stimulant sesquiterpene is not in isolation, it's part of the makeup of the oil along with other sesquiterpenes that may have either a synergistic or antagonistic interaction with said stimulant sesquiterpene. Also to consider would be the dosage at which said stimulant sesquiterpene becomes therapeutic and produces the desired effect. Is it one swipe, two or the entire 3gm bottle? Those are things we don't know or understand and even if science or literature tells us that a certain sesquiterpene is a stimulant it doesn't mean that it will have that effect on you; much in the same way that the literature tells us that the NSAID aspirin can reduce pain and fever in some and is thought to cause Reye's Syndrome in others.

IMO the best way forward is to, "let your conscious be your guide", experience the oil as an individual and let it tell you if it stimulates you or otherwise. Let the oil tell the story rather than the story telling the oud, that's what we need more of in the online oud community; the story is just that and has nothing to do with the oil, it's just poetic license so don't let it be more. Some get so obsessed with the story AND the "story about the story" that they distort the oil. The "story about the story" can be seen when they make statements such as, "Until some vendors took over the scene with stories, and since one story after another it has been, to the extent that stories change the perception on products", inferring that the story is suggestive and has an effect on products at best or misrepresents the product or is a falsehood at worst. Don't they realize that the "story about the story" they tell is just as suggestive, leading and possibly misrepresents or is false about those same products? I'm quite sure they do yet will feign innocence, it's called politricks not politics and some shepherds are well versed; unfortunately most aren't fit to understand but the suggestion to the sheep is just as effective. Furthermore, the statement is problematic for two main reasons. Firstly it assumes, that unlike themselves, anyone else is focused on the story and not the oil. Secondly it assumes, that unlike themselves, anyone is incapable of making up their own mind about the oil and let what's written about the oil dictate how they experience the oil; I personally believe that most are more mentally mature, the "story about the story" seems like nothing more than agenda that does not contribute to discourse. It's disappointing that supposed esteemed, learned and mature members are still focused on telling the "story about the story". Be an example and focus on the oils.
 

Nikhil S

Well-Known Member
#26
Amazing discussions. Love the info it provides. Very stimulating. Oud market is turning out to be a battle ground in recent times and this was such a healthy and mannered departure. Thank you Mr Kruger. I love reading your thoughts.

Personally, Oud is just an uplifter for me. It also requires a certain environment, space, time, patience and focus. There are casual Ouds too which are fantastic perfumes. They dont make the mind work but they do help it freshen up.

However, I have come to realise that burning Oud is very different from the world of oils. Is more easy to grasp and enjoy. However, it definitely requires training and supervision. The woods give out a spiritual smell. It lifts the mood immediately. That soft sweet smokey.velvet barn. Divine.

But, as always, when it comes to Science of Oud vs Business of Oud: Business wins. Hands get dirty. Mouths get foul. Suddenly everyone has a scientific article to quote. It doesnt always help.

In my humble experience, and I have committed a million mistakes too, have realised that Oud is just a variable. And Oud experience also depends on a lot of variables. The variables will not always fit in. But the Oud chase is one hell of a journey.

And one thing which guides me now is how the Oil or Wood speaks to me. That is the whole story. How you communicate with Oud is all that matters and vice versa. Sometimes it takes months to completely solve an Oud puzzle.

And above all the science, I respect most are the masters who bring it to us. It is their toil and fruits we all enjoy. Science on Oud will evolve. So will Oud. I wish however the traditional values are preserved. They make Oud so much awesome. I want my nose glued to my forearm always...
 

Oudamberlove

Well-Known Member
#27
It's disappointing that supposed esteemed, learned and mature members are still focused on telling the "story about the story". Be an example and focus on the oils.
Story battering should not be allowed, some people, including myself, like to be very expressive, now why would I censor myself;) thank you for bringing-up this point DualTurboIntakePearlito:)

I get to know the 'Teasures in my Chest' (Oud oils), I am on a personal level with each one. I am familiar with how they affect me. When it's time for a swipe, I instinctively know which one to choose:cool:
 

Ammar

Active Member
#28
Something I wrote long time ago:

“The olfactory tract is part of the limbic system which is connected to emotion, behavior, and memory among others. I think that oud has the ability to intensely stimulate the olfactory receptors in the nasal cavity due to the presence of multiple olfactory stimulants at the same time in concentration (what we comprehend as notes) which lead to generate strong signals along the limbic system pathway (not in a way how recreational-like substance directly targeted a certain brain receptors, otherwise the effect of oud will be universal which is not) with possible selective inhibition of the frontal lobe of the brain responsible mainly for cognitive skills and judgement creating this relaxation, vivid images, memory recalls, flying ideas, and a personal experience…”

IMO, it’s not about crossing the BBB especially in essential oils as the surface area of the nasal mucosa and the amount of sesquiterpenes being absorbed is minuscule, it’s about the ability to stimulate the limbic system as I said above that varies from one to another. The effect probably more with burning wood as you may absorb more through the lungs that goes to the blood in addition to the olfactory effect at the level of the nose but I’m not sure if this even valid.
 

Nikhil S

Well-Known Member
#29
Our Limbic system is much more complicated than that. Even seeing some precious wild Oud would have an equal release on endorphins :). And brain has the ability to control the absorption or the metabolism of the absorbed compounds. Lung route is fast for sure because it directly pumps out blood through the heart.
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#30
The "story about the story" can be seen when they make statements such as, "Until some vendors took over the scene with stories, and since one story after another it has been, to the extent that stories change the perception on products", inferring that the story is suggestive and has an effect on products at best or misrepresents the product or is a falsehood at worst. Don't they realize that the "story about the story" they tell is just as suggestive, leading and possibly misrepresents or is false about those same products? I'm quite sure they do yet will feign innocence, it's called politricks not politics and some shepherds are well versed; unfortunately most aren't fit to understand but the suggestion to the sheep is just as effective. Furthermore, the statement is problematic for two main reasons. Firstly it assumes, that unlike themselves, anyone else is focused on the story and not the oil. Secondly it assumes, that unlike themselves, anyone is incapable of making up their own mind about the oil and let what's written about the oil dictate how they experience the oil; I personally believe that most are more mentally mature, the "story about the story" seems like nothing more than agenda that does not contribute to discourse. It's disappointing that supposed esteemed, learned and mature members are still focused on telling the "story about the story". Be an example and focus on the oils.
The beauty of it is, until those storytellin' vendors came with their stories, there was no 'scene' to be taken over. All you had was Montale and DOP and the Khaleej. So to take away the vendors with the 'stories' is like taking away the scene itself.

The world is a free world. People have a right to express themselves as they wish, create art in any way they please. Whether it be by distilling oud and then showcasing each oil next to a used pair of socks from Ceausescu's Romania – or throwing each bottle from the top of the Empire State Building and then selling only the ones that don't break.

Get this: Art is FREE. It is unique – and personal – and (yes) a little CRAZY. The fact that you have a pack of imbeciles trolling your work only attests to its relevance; it doesn't tarnish or devalue it. Who would launch forums and spend hours trolling about something that has no value?

People will do anything for recognition. Even if it means dedicating their lives to disruption, hacking, casting doubt and causing a stir. They love the thrill that it brings. When they see that they can say something and it has an impact; whether true or false. That it has an effect; good or bad. In their unique center of the universe, each troll is the most important person alive. And so they will go on trolling 'the story about the story'…

Guess what. I'm going to keep telling MY story of what I'm going through here because that's how I visualize MY art coming to life. That's what I want people to know about what went into making the fragrances they're smelling. It means NOTHING to me if the entire population of the world reads it or not a soul.
 
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kesiro

Well-Known Member
#31
Ensar, I can’t help but agree with you on many counts. Artisanal oud is just that. Art. The stories provide a helpful adjunct to the oil experience. As Pearly Whirly put it, people who really get oud focus on the oils and their qualities. No story can make up for an oil that does not perform.
 

Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
#32
@Rasoul S good discussion. As much as I love simplicity, some things aren't so simple. It's difficult to say how a simple molecule or compound will effect the affect of a complex organism such as a human being. The taste of a peanut butter sandwich may trigger feelings of elation and joy in someone who recalls childhood memories of their mother making them one as they watched morning cartoons together. On the other hand, the taste of peanut in something or merely the smell of peanuts may trigger feelings of anxiety and impending doom in someone who recalls a childhood memory of the first time they experienced symptoms of anaphylactic shock from being exposed to peanuts. In these cases not only does the peanut effect their affect differently, it can effect them differently physiologically and is just one example that shows that it's not 100% correlation between a substance and how everyone will respond to it.

Other things to consider are the classification of substances, dosage and the synergistic/antagonistic nature of compounds. Caffeine is classified as a central nervous system stimulant yet for some it can interfere with adenosine triphosphate(ATP), cyclic adenosine monophosphate(cAMP), etc. in a way that causes somnolence. Also, for some who consume high dosages of caffeine it can produce tolerance and have the opposite effect, as well as withdrawal symptoms when stopped and different effects once consumption is restarted; much like you can wear and oil today and be effected differently when you wear it next week.

With oud oils we have to consider the same things. A particular sesquiterpene MAY be classified as a stimulant but may effect each individual differently. In addition that supposed stimulant sesquiterpene is not in isolation, it's part of the makeup of the oil along with other sesquiterpenes that may have either a synergistic or antagonistic interaction with said stimulant sesquiterpene. Also to consider would be the dosage at which said stimulant sesquiterpene becomes therapeutic and produces the desired effect. Is it one swipe, two or the entire 3gm bottle? Those are things we don't know or understand and even if science or literature tells us that a certain sesquiterpene is a stimulant it doesn't mean that it will have that effect on you; much in the same way that the literature tells us that the NSAID aspirin can reduce pain and fever in some and is thought to cause Reye's Syndrome in others.

IMO the best way forward is to, "let your conscious be your guide", experience the oil as an individual and let it tell you if it stimulates you or otherwise. Let the oil tell the story rather than the story telling the oud, that's what we need more of in the online oud community; the story is just that and has nothing to do with the oil, it's just poetic license so don't let it be more. Some get so obsessed with the story AND the "story about the story" that they distort the oil. The "story about the story" can be seen when they make statements such as, "Until some vendors took over the scene with stories, and since one story after another it has been, to the extent that stories change the perception on products", inferring that the story is suggestive and has an effect on products at best or misrepresents the product or is a falsehood at worst. Don't they realize that the "story about the story" they tell is just as suggestive, leading and possibly misrepresents or is false about those same products? I'm quite sure they do yet will feign innocence, it's called politricks not politics and some shepherds are well versed; unfortunately most aren't fit to understand but the suggestion to the sheep is just as effective. Furthermore, the statement is problematic for two main reasons. Firstly it assumes, that unlike themselves, anyone else is focused on the story and not the oil. Secondly it assumes, that unlike themselves, anyone is incapable of making up their own mind about the oil and let what's written about the oil dictate how they experience the oil; I personally believe that most are more mentally mature, the "story about the story" seems like nothing more than agenda that does not contribute to discourse. It's disappointing that supposed esteemed, learned and mature members are still focused on telling the "story about the story". Be an example and focus on the oils.
thnx Doc. ty for the education and esp. the coffee part. my poor grandpa has been getting abuse all his life and being made fun of even by me for having to have his coffee before bedtime!!! it now makes sense why he would have the opposite effect from it. above highlighted sections particularly spoke to me. ty for that.
 

Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
#33
Amazing discussions. Love the info it provides. Very stimulating. Oud market is turning out to be a battle ground in recent times and this was such a healthy and mannered departure. Thank you Mr Kruger. I love reading your thoughts.

Personally, Oud is just an uplifter for me. It also requires a certain environment, space, time, patience and focus. There are casual Ouds too which are fantastic perfumes. They dont make the mind work but they do help it freshen up.

However, I have come to realise that burning Oud is very different from the world of oils. Is more easy to grasp and enjoy. However, it definitely requires training and supervision. The woods give out a spiritual smell. It lifts the mood immediately. That soft sweet smokey.velvet barn. Divine.

But, as always, when it comes to Science of Oud vs Business of Oud: Business wins. Hands get dirty. Mouths get foul. Suddenly everyone has a scientific article to quote. It doesnt always help.

In my humble experience, and I have committed a million mistakes too, have realised that Oud is just a variable. And Oud experience also depends on a lot of variables. The variables will not always fit in. But the Oud chase is one hell of a journey.

And one thing which guides me now is how the Oil or Wood speaks to me. That is the whole story. How you communicate with Oud is all that matters and vice versa. Sometimes it takes months to completely solve an Oud puzzle.

And above all the science, I respect most are the masters who bring it to us. It is their toil and fruits we all enjoy. Science on Oud will evolve. So will Oud. I wish however the traditional values are preserved. They make Oud so much awesome. I want my nose glued to my forearm always...
i value your thoughts and the fact that they are coming from the heart. particularly like the highlighted part above.
 

Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
#34
Something I wrote long time ago:

“The olfactory tract is part of the limbic system which is connected to emotion, behavior, and memory among others. I think that oud has the ability to intensely stimulate the olfactory receptors in the nasal cavity due to the presence of multiple olfactory stimulants at the same time in concentration (what we comprehend as notes) which lead to generate strong signals along the limbic system pathway (not in a way how recreational-like substance directly targeted a certain brain receptors, otherwise the effect of oud will be universal which is not) with possible selective inhibition of the frontal lobe of the brain responsible mainly for cognitive skills and judgement creating this relaxation, vivid images, memory recalls, flying ideas, and a personal experience…”

IMO, it’s not about crossing the BBB especially in essential oils as the surface area of the nasal mucosa and the amount of sesquiterpenes being absorbed is minuscule, it’s about the ability to stimulate the limbic system as I said above that varies from one to another. The effect probably more with burning wood as you may absorb more through the lungs that goes to the blood in addition to the olfactory effect at the level of the nose but I’m not sure if this even valid.
makes lots of sense. i too have noticed more "therapeutic" effects from burning wood than smelling my arm. i will pay closer attention to this in future.