Oud's Holy Grail?

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#1
I only got a teeny tiny v vial of this. Will re try and report back. I definitely see that non barn barn you and others have mentioned. Is actually quite enjoyable. Maybe not as much as the scents unique to let’s say malinau or nha trang.... but still quite unique and enjoyable.
Some oils like to play "hard to get." Once you get them, though, you're done and spoken for.....

One thing that I find is that lovers of Malinau generally have a hard time appreciating Hindi or Chinese oud. The opposite is equally true as well. A Hindi man like @PEARL won't touch a Malinau with a 9-foot pole so long as there's a Hindi to be swiped anywhere within reach.

Now how do you deal with that dichotomy as a distiller – that is the million dollar question! ;)
 
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Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
#2
Some oils like to play "hard to get." Once you get them, though, you're done and spoken for.....

One thing that I find is that lovers of Malinau generally have a hard time appreciating Hindi or Chinese oud. The opposite is equally true as well. A Hindi man like @PEARL won't touch a Malinau with a 9-foot pole so long as there's a Hindi to be swiped anywhere within reach.

Now how do you deal with that dichotomy as a distiller – that is the million dollar question! ;)
Good to know. Certainly true for me. 90%
 

saint458

Well-Known Member
#3
Some oils like to play "hard to get." Once you get them, though, you're done and spoken for.....

One thing that I find is that lovers of Malinau generally have a hard time appreciating Hindi or Chinese oud. The opposite is equally true as well. A Hindi man like @PEARL won't touch a Malinau with a 9-foot pole so long as there's a Hindi to be swiped anywhere within reach.

Now how do you deal with that dichotomy as a distiller – that is the million dollar question! ;)
Good to know. Certainly true for me. 90%
So true for me also ...
 

Oudamberlove

Well-Known Member
#6
They do say though that all roads end with hindi. Will see. I do like the likes of lavanya and chugoku
In my case, Hindi and Malaysian rank 1 and 2 with a lot of regions at 3rd. But it's important to note that all the major regions "ARE" "ESSENTIAL". I never know what region of oud will call out to me in a given day (subconscious therapy in action), and if I didn't have my Filarias, Borneos, etc., etc.,...I would sorely miss them all:( Having many regions in my arsenal makes me feel secure that I have an oud for all occasions:cool:
 

Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
#7
They really don't though....
@Ensar do you have a holy grail or believe in one? in almost all things there seems to be a more or less consensus where the holly grail lies.

in cured meat: bellota patta negra
in blue cheese: roquefort
in red wine: burgundy
in black tea: Darjeeling
...

i personally find vietnam to be the holy grail thusfar in my journey. a certain sense of regal yet at ease quality to the oils. complex, multifaceted, smooth and grounding yet uplifting.

note: i don't fully subscribe to holy grail cause its oversimplification of a qualitative experience and very much goes against the idea of different strokes for different folks. having said that there is some merit in discussing what is amongst the very top places for agarwood turned to oil.
 
#8
@Ensar do you have a holy grail or believe in one? in almost all things there seems to be a more or less consensus where the holly grail lies.

in cured meat: bellota patta negra
in blue cheese: roquefort
in red wine: burgundy
in black tea: Darjeeling
...

i personally find vietnam to be the holy grail thusfar in my journey. a certain sense of regal yet at ease quality to the oils. complex, multifaceted, smooth and grounding yet uplifting.

note: i don't fully subscribe to holy grail cause its oversimplification of a qualitative experience and very much goes against the idea of different strokes for different folks. having said that there is some merit in discussing what is amongst the very top places for agarwood turned to oil.
In my personal opinion, as an artist it is best not to have a holy grail as it would restrict one’s creativity and impose a paradigm on himself. At best maybe a preference. [emoji4]
 

Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
#11
Alrighty. Good to know. I thought is kinda universal -not that I would have forced it - still, I can breath in my fav ouds easier now:)

@Oud Learner
Yes of course but a big but for me is i dont think innately we can be objective and love all our creations the same. Our holy grail may actually change or not. For me there is no denying the exist nice of preferences and I am curious as to what is ensar’s holy grail, at least these days.

I love my malinau I love my kinamantan my sri lankan malay and ... but vietnam like royal guallam, kenmei, Kinam Rouge are just something else.
 
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Nikhil S

Well-Known Member
#13
Yes and No. Every person's Oud journey is different, so is the destination. Think about your most favorite Oud oil. The one which you swipe most or preserve most or cherish most. It could be from any region. For me Merokes don't work but for some the same oil provides total thrill. As for my personal tastes, I cannot live with a single profile. I need an assortment for my rotation. Sometimes I fall in love with the mellowing effect of Hindi, sometimes I hate even the thought of wearing one. But, burning a wild Hindi chip is a real treat but only after you've exhausted Sinking Brunei or Vietnamese. Vietnam wood has no match. I don't have a good Vietnamese oil with me for reference but the woods are a whole new level. Hindi has lost it's charm due to this "pseudo-traditional" market gimmick. I agree with it. It's just a trap. But yes artists like Zak from Agarwood Assam showed me the true face of Hindis. His Lushai Hills, Manek and Arem Sung are exceptional. The traditionalists might not even believe that these are actually Hindi. What an irony ! Because in the last 3 or 4 decades, Hindi Oud has been hijacked, corrupted, misrepresented for personal gains. Zak's Abba loves XLL btw. He is able to appreciate something which I cannot as of now. I am working on it. Who do I trust more - a person who spent his life with Oud travelling all over the world (I have seen his old passport) or myself who has only spent 2 years maybe ! There are too many questions with Oud and finding answers is quite a costly affair. I am not buying Ouds anymore. I have exhausted my resources. But I enjoy reading and learning about Oud a lot and will continue to do so. It gives me a lot of happiness.
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#14
@Ensar do you have a holy grail or believe in one? in almost all things there seems to be more or less a consensus where the holy grail lies.

in cured meat: bellota patta negra
in blue cheese: Roquefort
in red wine: burgundy
in black tea: Darjeeling
...
I personally find Vietnam to be the holy grail thus far in my journey. a certain sense of regal yet at ease quality to the oils. complex, multifaceted, smooth and grounding yet uplifting.

note: I don't fully subscribe to holy grail cause its oversimplification of a qualitative experience and very much goes against the idea of different strokes for different folks. having said that there is some merit in discussing what is amongst the very top places for agarwood turned to oil.
It is possible to guesstimate a 'best in class' when comparing between two of the same. Like if you say the 'best' navel oranges come from the Sunny State. Mississippi oranges may not compare… Were we to say Florida oranges are better than Japanese yuzu, though… In the first case, we're comparing the fruit of citrus Sinensis trees cultivated in neighboring states. In the latter, we're looking at completely different species that produce radically different fruit. Same with the oleoresin of aquilaria agallocha—a wholly distinct 'fruit' from that of aquilaria malaccensis, of aquilaria Sinensis, crassna, baneonsis, and so on… Comparing across different species always returns to the psyche of the comparer. There is no objective ground to go on.

Some people will say Korean ginseng is superior to American. I beg to differ. Panax ginseng has unique medicinal properties that are not found in ginseng quinquefolius. And vice versa. The two are not mutually exclusive. They do different things. The one is a tonic, the other an adaptogen. They're prescribed for different conditions. Based on the patient's constitution.

I would argue that even within the same species, it is not possible to rule one variant as superior to another without succumbing to some degree of privately held prejudice. You say Darjeeling is widely accepted as the best black tea. I'd take a cup of Golden Monkey from Yunnan any day. The preference returns to my palate, which operates on a different wiring to the one yours is hooked up to. I may have very fond memories of Yunnan agarwood, which lends a tinge of nostalgic 'value' to all things Yunnan in my head. You might be of Indian descent. As a purebred Punjabi, you cannot tolerate this new type of 'agarwood' they found south of the border on a godforsaken island that is now hailed as the 'best.' I used to scorn Malaysian oud. Until I married a Singaporean Malay, and Johor became my new 'Upstate.' No one is free of prejudice.

We operate on prejudices that help 'streamline' all the information that is coming at us at (literally) mindboggling speeds. Look at Taha's Filipino wood. Someone who has never seen it, or Taha, or the Philippines, or a single aquilaria tree in their life, decides that it is not in fact Filipino. They are not working objectively, from the resined reality of a slab of molecules, but subjectively, with their prejudice against Taha as the starting point: Taha is expensive—he lives in an expensive apartment—therefore he must make a lot of money—therefore I don't like him—therefore his wood is fake. 'Taha' needs to be made to conform to what I think of him. Never the other way around. It takes a rare breed of intellect to rise above preconceived notions and the psychological framework of prejudice opinions are minted in, and judge by intrinsic value.

What kind of exactitude does it take for an acclaimed perfumista to go against all convention and write off a thousand hip and trendy new fragrances in favor of a traditional—not Hindi—but Chinese oud, a Tanzanian sandal co-distill, and Purple Kinam?—when she was warned, not by her Western peers and colleagues, but by our very own 'Oudh' deputies that the oils in question do not amount to much? No doubt, only a rare intellect can counter all that and issue such a verdict.
 
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Nikhil S

Well-Known Member
#15
It is possible to guesstimate a 'best in class' when comparing between two of the same. Like if you say the 'best' navel oranges come from the Sunny State. Mississippi oranges may not compare… Were we to say Florida oranges are better than Japanese yuzu, though… In the first case, we're comparing the fruit of citrus Sinensis trees cultivated in neighboring states. In the latter, we're looking at completely different species that produce radically different fruit. Same with the oleoresin of aquilaria agallocha—a wholly distinct 'fruit' from that of aquilaria malaccensis, of aquilaria Sinensis, crassna, baneonsis, and so on… Comparing across different species always returns to the psyche of the comparer. There is no objective ground to go on.

Some people will say Korean ginseng is superior to American. I beg to differ. Panax ginseng has unique medicinal properties that are not found in ginseng quinquefolius. And vice versa. The two are not mutually exclusive. They do different things. The one is a tonic, the other an adaptogen. They're prescribed for different conditions. Based on the patient's constitution.

I would argue that even within the same species, it is not possible to rule one variant as superior to another without succumbing to some degree of privately held prejudice. You say Darjeeling is widely accepted as the best black tea. I'd take a cup of Golden Monkey from Yunnan any day. The preference returns to my palate, which operates on a different wiring to the one yours is hooked up to. I may have very fond memories of Yunnan agarwood, which lends a tinge of nostalgic 'value' to all things Yunnan in my head. You might be of Indian descent. As a purebred Punjabi, you cannot tolerate this new type of 'agarwood' they found south of the border on a godforsaken island that is now hailed as the 'best.' I used to scorn Malaysian oud. Until I married a Singaporean Malay, and Johor became my new 'Upstate.' No one is free of prejudice.

We operate on prejudices that help 'streamline' all the information that is coming at us at (literally) mindboggling speeds. Look at Taha's Filipino wood. Someone who has never seen it, or Taha, or the Philippines, or a single aquilaria tree in their life, decides that it is not in fact Filipino. They are not working objectively, from the resined reality of a slab of molecules, but subjectively, with their prejudice against Taha as the starting point: Taha is expensive—he lives in an expensive apartment—therefore he must make a lot of money—therefore I don't like him—therefore his wood is fake. 'Taha' needs to be made to conform to what I think of him. Never the other way around. It takes a rare breed of intellect to rise above preconceived notions and the psychological framework of prejudice opinions are minted in, and judge by intrinsic value.

What kind of exactitude does it take for an acclaimed perfumista to go against all convention and write off a thousand hip and trendy new fragrances in favor of a traditional—not Hindi—but Chinese oud, a Tanzanian sandal co-distill, and Purple Kinam?—when she was warned, not by her Western peers and colleagues, but by our very own 'Oudh' deputies that the oils in question do not amount to much? No doubt, only a rare intellect can counter all that and issue such a verdict.
Kafka has really shocked everyone this year. She is a decent nose. Has a wide taste and is open to all sorts of scents. Areej Le Dore had to be no.1. The other houses like Papillon, Bogue Profumo were also expected so was lovely scents from Dusita. But the Ouds....lol. That must have upset a lot of perfume snobs and Kafka will also lose some credibility this year. But she is on point with the Ouds. A victory for Oud. And most importantly this will increased awareness among the perfume lovers to seek natural scents or artisanal oils. That Email incident was a cheap show. Even if I was an Ensar opponent/competitor/victim I wouldn't do such a thing. Because it really turns people off off Oud. One of my viewers a close confidant of Roja Dove emailed me a few days back saying, "Roja says all Oud essentially should smell shitty ! Otherwise it's not Oud." Roger/Roja supposedly spent like 3 years studying Arabian perfume culture. And that's what he came up with about Oud. And to his defense my buddy replied then how come his Aoud line sells so well in UAE ? I LOLd.
 

PEARL

Well-Known Member
#16
One thing that I find is that lovers of Malinau generally have a hard time appreciating Hindi or Chinese oud. The opposite is equally true as well. A Hindi man like @PEARL won't touch a Malinau with a 9-foot pole so long as there's a Hindi to be swiped anywhere within reach.
@Ensar you may be surprised, if my preference was based on my most used oils then Hindi's would be at the bottom of the list. I like oud, for me appreciation of oud goes beyond a region, I appreciate any pure agarwood oil or extract and while some are obviously better than others IMO, there has never been an oil or extract from the 'trusted vendors' that I didn't appreciate. There is also what I consider oud usage, I use some oils as personal scents, some for quietly listening to, some are meditative and relaxing, some invigorating, etc. Oils in those categories may overlap into another category. I've come to the realization that my preference has not changed, it's become more focused. There are oils I prefer over others but that hasn't removed or changed my love for those others. As far as acquiring new oils I focus on those that have the notes and characteristics that I prefer, having them all would be optimum but as long as Eisenmann is making exhaust and Supersprint is making downpipes, it's not feasible. Then there's wearability, many of the oils I prefer have a lower wearability index. What I mean by wearability is my own comfort level broadcasting a scent during a full wearing. I'm not comfortable broadcasting Oud Zachariyya as a personal scent for everyday work and play but it's perfect for Jumu'ah, whereas Pursat 2005 was my everyday scent for quite a while, hence more used. My focus is on all things Hindi, "Chindi", "Hindese" and the bizarre outlier Sultan Sufyan without a doubt. However, my three most worn oils are the venerable Thai, Oud Yusuf; the immaculately clean, fruity and ethereal Cambodian, Pursat 2005; and you wouldn't have thunk it, a Malinau.... the woody, vanillin Malinau, Bois de'Borneo.