Rasoul and Ensar private chat on Wang Liao Kuo Laos oil

[Rasoul S]

Hi all,

one of the joys of oud for me is the dissection, the deduction and detective work to unwrap it. I derive a lot of pleasure from studying an oil and draw comparisons and contrasts and it feels particularly good (strokes the ego) when i manage to get the method and or origin, grade, or aesthetic intention behind its making.

hope you find below candid conversation helpful and enjoyable:

Rasoul: hi ensar. Here are my first impressions of the laos oil as I see it based on two wears: young oil. No doubt. Lots of teenager like energy and personality in the opening. Senkoh elements. Lots of stuff going on top note. Chinese minus the booze opening is evident. Then flashes of cambodi are sensed. After the roller coaster what becomes clear is the cambodi note is, in fact, more of a kyen thai crassna note (I am talking Jing shen Lu (JSL) but more of a 2.0 version of it here). I see qualities that I usually attribute to agar aura in the drydown yet there is a bit more fat, depth and base. To my nose is a mostly crassna wood origin with some sinesis material. What part of my take on Laos resonates with you?

Ensar: Frankly, not too much! To me it’s the opposite of Senkoh—a Sultan Series oil. The opening is more like a Papuan than Chinese. You are right about the auxiliaries being similar to JSL—but it’s purely that, as they were cooked in the same pot—no Thai wood present whatsoever. It is notches and notches higher than JSL, being a seah distillation

Rasoul: Oh wow. I got some more studying to do. Particularly the Papuan part. Like port papua or GP (green papua) or more papuamantan like? And re JSL part I meant I smell crassna trees not trat per se. In other words, are there any crassna trees in Laos and area you harvested these chips? Would it be possible if they were part of the stockpile used ot make WLK? I will also re-wear them to specifically study sultan vs senkoh signatures. The quality is there in this oil no doubt. I have high hopes for it. to see the top notes collapse and gain a bigger nucleus with aging. Integration of top notes..

Ensar: very possible [reffering to the crassna variety wood origin]

Rasoul: excellent. the world once again makes sense now, as i was seeing notes i have come to associate with crassna in cambodia and thailand.

few days go by...

Rasoul: while I have you here, the WLK Laos oil is remaining much the same to the way I had seen it. I tried looking for papua opening but I fail. i see chinese minus booze. A bitter root veg medicinal narcotic yet sobering note but in a fatter and more toned down vapor quality. Then Cambodi accents and some other unique notes but again these beautiful top note heavy notes grounded with butter and some fat. meaning not as vaporous and certainly not sharp or angular. The drydown is once again crassna kye note ala JSL but more lean and elegant.

What papua oil does it remind you of? Brighter like port papua, middle like Green Papua, or are we talking Archinam dark green or even papuamantan black green? I can see maybe port papua... somewhat. Not clearly.

And oooh while I agree is not senkoh, it has elements of it but not enough ethereal, lithe qualities to fit the bill, I still fail to see sultan remark you made. I don’t see new Guinean qualities. I don’t get the buzz. The static quality. the aquatic... Perhaps you can expand on elements that together bring the words sultan to your mind.

Any and all of your thoughts are welcome. And if you are game, I even like the idea of copy-pasting our conversations here and we continue the rest on the forum. I think it will be a great learning opportunity for all.

we now await @Ensar Oud @Kruger and adam to chime in...

stay tuned folks. hopefully you have some of this oil to swipe along and join us on the ride...

 

[Rasoul S]

p.s i sure talk a lot. lol. here is to more listening and reading for me in 2019 and less yapping

 

[Ensar Oud]

Rasoul: while I have you here, the WLK Laos oil is remaining much the same to the way I had seen it. I tried looking for papua opening but I fail. i see chinese minus booze. A bitter root veg medicinal narcotic yet sobering note but in a fatter and more toned down vapor quality. Then Cambodi accents and some other unique notes but again these beautiful top note heavy notes grounded with butter and some fat. meaning not as vaporous and certainly not sharp or angular. The drydown is once again crassna kye note ala JSL but more lean and elegant.

What papua oil does it remind you of? Brighter like port papua, middle like Green Papua, or are we talking Archinam dark green or even papuamantan black green? I can see maybe port papua... somewhat. Not clearly.

And oooh while I agree is not senkoh, it has elements of it but not enough ethereal, lithe qualities to fit the bill, I still fail to see sultan remark you made. I don’t see new Guinean qualities. I don’t get the buzz. The static quality. the aquatic... Perhaps you can expand on elements that together bring the words sultan to your mind.

I actually see where you're coming from now. The Papuan note I'm referring to goes back to the Oriscent Papuans, not the likes of Port Papua, Papuamantan & Co, so agreed, you won't find that kind of overtly green profile that might come to mind when you think of an oil like Green Papua, for example. Plus the resemblance to Papua that I get is only present at the very opening, during the first 5 minutes, before it turns bitter-ginseng-medicinal, like a cross between Nha Trang LTD and Qi Nam Thai, if you've tried it. Most Sultan Series oils contain some element of New Guinea wood which is altogether missing here, and which may be the reason it doesn't strike you as a 'purebred' SS installment (it is also the reason it is not listed under Sultan Series on the site). Though we had some non-NG SS oils in the past, like Qi Nam Thai (Pattani), OR3 (Maroke), so had you tried these you might be able to connect more dots and see how the parameters impact different types of wood when distilled neat. To recap, the main reason I see this as a Sultan Series oil is due to the same distillation setup being used, the water, pot, temp, etc, and last but not least the high-quality wood. Here are some pictures of the feedstock, to give you a better idea:

And oooh while I agree is not senkoh, it has elements of it but not enough ethereal, lithe qualities to fit the bill, I still fail to see sultan remark you made. I don’t see new Guinean qualities. I don’t get the buzz. The static quality. the aquatic... Perhaps you can expand on elements that together bring the words sultan to your mind.

Any and all of your thoughts are welcome. And if you are game, I even like the idea of copy-pasting our conversations here and we continue the rest on the forum. I think it will be a great learning opportunity for all.

For sure! There's plenty going on (which is partly why it's less Senkoh and more Sultan) and there will likely be more going on with some age. Not sure what you mean with the 'static quality'… For me, the quality/grade is evident in the smell, and although the pictures aren't great, they give you an idea of the kind of burnables that went into the pots! I'll also try to upload some videos where we have large, display-grade pieces getting the axe.

I'm happy to continue the chat on the forum. With the Morning Oud series on YouTube, my participation on the forum has taken a bit of a back seat, I'm also currently traveling but I wouldn't mind sharing some info on this topic as time permits. @Kruger and @~A Coburn can also hopefully pitch in.

 

[Rasoul S]

So now I see what you mean about the papua opening. The green delicate minty note but also the behavior of the texture of the aroma. I can even see some port papua. And yes you are right, it is the very opening. Ditto that Chinese quality. Neither last long. Both have paved path for crassna to do its dance mostly. They do lift the crassna and dictate somewhat how the crassna should dance (think invisible strings of a marionette doll).

As for the sultan vs senkoh. Ok so not sultan=New Guinea co distillation definition. Mostafa7 is categorized as sultan but obviously. Or sultan oil as is NG. Even then I still see a senkoh/gen 3 behavior/quality.

Eitherway, it has been plenty fun to study this oil. I am super curious to know how it will age in let’s say 1, e, 5, 10 years. If you can do pls paint a picture of your best guesstimate for us. I don’t expect you knowing for certain. Just gut feeling is good enough for me. But if you are far more certain of certain outcomes so pls highlight them. Many thnx

 

[~A Coburn]

I tried looking for papua opening but I fail. i see chinese minus booze. A bitter root veg medicinal narcotic yet sobering note but in a fatter and more toned down vapor quality.

One word: Papuya!