Scammer on marketplace

Luigi

Moderator
Staff member
#1
Dear All,

Regrettably, we've received some concerned messages about suspicious, possibly fraudulent activity between forum members. In order to protect the forum and ourselves from any legal consequences, we've deactivated private messaging. The forum will continue as normal, except that it'll only be used as a public discussion board.

Sorry for any inconvenience. We're in the process of researching the legal ramifications of maintaining such a marketplace and will keep you updated.
 
#4
was the scammer a buyer or seller? i just bought something but i used the credit card feature on paypal so, im covered no matter what happens. i highly reccomend doing that whenever using paypal.
 

Luigi

Moderator
Staff member
#5
If you've done business with anybody without problem, then hopefully there's no reason for concern. We don't suspect that there was a basis of trust established before the person(s) began illicit movements. Nothing has been confirmed either, so we cannot give out any further information. But the case might not be limited to only one member on the marketplace. We don't know how much went on behind the scenes with private messaging.

When we started this thing, it came as a result of being peeved off at the way people were treated on other forums and we decided to put out some cash to foster something more welcoming, and perhaps end up with a decent website. We appreciate the site, but running it is a part time job at best, one for which we don't get paid. Moderation is a much bigger headache than I thought it would be. We have a continual barrage of spammers signing up daily. So far we've managed to get rid of them before they start posting, and hopefully before any of you get PM's from them.

The forum is meant to be an autonomous entity where the discussion leads the way to even better discussion and knowledge and talk. Limiting our involvement by suspending the marketplace and the private messaging need not change this.
 

Thomas S.

Active Member
#6
Dear All,

avoiding /getting rid of such scammers should be easy: just program a registration function into this Forum. This function should be linked to PayPal so that anyone who wishes to sell needs to pay a small fee. Let´s say, somewhere between US-$20 and 50.
I believe scammers will avoid such functions as then the inidividual information is linked to a PayPal account, making it easier to get a hold on such person(s).
Also, people could then decide to contribute a small fee (let´s say, ten bucks; on voluntary basis only!) to keep this Forum up and running (we all know that server space doesn´t come for free these days). It is current practice with a lot of websites and Forums, so maybe you want to consider this, too.

Just my two cents!
kind regards,
Thomas S.
 
#7
The PayPal thing may be one way of dealing with the problem, but if one were determined enough to make a quick grand they could easily register a new PayPal account, pay the "I am not a scammer fee" and then sell a bottle of Kyara Koutan for $1000, tell the buyer his oud is on the way to delay things by a few days, then withdraw the payment from the PayPal account and move on. PayPal buyer protection wouldn't be much help if the seller's account is already emptied by the time the buyer files for dispute resolution. This happened to me on another forum (not oud-related). I even contacted the Police but they just suggested that I file a small claims case against the fraudster who happened to live half-way across the country and such a proceeding was not practical at all. I've tried to communicate with the fraudster telling him that I'd expose them on the forum but he just laughed at that and stopped using his account. I had absolutely no recourse and didn't get my money back but at least I learned my lesson...

I understand that the forum owner and administration want to protect members from being scammed but as far as I am concerned they are completely indemnified from any responsibility. Just like on any other forum all private deals between members are always "caveat emptor" and some common sense should be used when dealing with sellers who have no prior history or reputation. I personally would ask a new seller to ship first (I have my Basenotes deals feedback to guarantee my trustworthiness) and if they refuse I simply won't go ahead with the deal.

As opposed to the PayPal payment I'd suggest a waiting period of several months and/or a minimum amount of posts (say 50) before a new member can post in the Buy/Sell section. And even then, I'd be unwilling to pay first.
 
#8
Very sensible words those Igor and based on experience (about which I am sorry to hear!)

Scammers may mock and scoff but the stolen money regardless of their ingenuity or the buyers gullibility they pay sooner or later in some way or the other.

Personally I also would never buy from any one without a solid prior history. Also ship first, pay later seems a reasonable trade off incase no such prior history exists.
 
#9
all of this can be avoided if you simply change the method of payment when you send the money through paypal. i believe that all of you have credit cards(you have to to use paypal), that will allow you to get your money back if an item doesnt arrive. mine gives me 90 days to recover the funds, 2x as many as paypal. this feature also sticks paypal with an additional 3% fee so, they wont just let you do it, you have to choose it when entering payments method(click the 'CHANGE' box). it does feel good to make paypal eat some fees after all i have eaten over the years. i personally have never had paypal, not, recover funds fo me exept when i let it past 45 days.

i deal with noobs, on the car forums, all the time with this method. even if paypal wont reverse the payment one trip to the bank,fill out a form and, BAM!, ive got my cash in hand. i build engines and buy alot of parts online. sometimes the price is too good to be true and its a scam but, it could also be someone that really needs the money. im fully covered and i have the funds to tie up and see if it actually arrives, so i go for it and 9 times out of 10 it i win. if you cant have your funds tied up for a few weeks then dont buy. i will also start a thread and call out the scammer for all the forum to see and avoid.

i get scammed like everyone else but, if you protect yourself and have a few extra funds it becomes a trivial thing. i wouldnt imagine anyone reading this, HERE, didnt have some extra funds,lol. i have zero fear with buying online and noone else should with the perameters i mentioned. i infact just bought some oil from a member here(my first post) and he just sent me pics of the oil and the package with tracking numbers.