Sinking grade wood?

m.arif

Active Member
#21
That's the biggest nightmare for a wood dealer.... He scores a nice log that sinks, then.... 6, 12, 24 months later.... he's got a floater.

All wood will decrease in weight if stored in the open, but this is just part of the drying process. Once the wood is reasonably dry, if you bring it to more arid climates (like Jordan) even the volatile aromatic compounds may start to evaporate, which is why I used to store my wood in the freezer in our old office. We recently moved to a ground level office which is a bit more damp than the previous one, and I haven't felt the need to freeze my woods since.
@ensar Wow even after 24 months sinking wood may become a floater? A nightmare indeed! So I'm assuming in normal climates, water molecules left the wood thus making it lighter ? In this case it would mean that the wood wasnt dried properly? How long does it take for wood to dry ? Is it after or before cleaning the wood?

What do you think of Malaysia's climate? I'm worried about my wood now :eek:

Btw Ensar I have some personal things to discuss, how should I contact you? Through the forum's inbox function or others?
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#22
Well, it can in certain climates, such as Jordan! In humid places like Malaysia and Singapore, wood is 'assumed' to be completely dried after a few months. So, according to a Malaysian vendor, he dried his wood as 'properly' as he could – until he sends it to someone in Amman, who ends up inadvertently 'drying' it just a tad further, and he's got a floater to reckon with. I doubt you have much to worry about in Malaysia.

You're welcome to message me via the forum if you like, or submit an 'inquiry' on EnsarOud.com.
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#23
I just made an astonishing discovery! Was weighing a Laotian log I've had in my collection for quite some time, and to my disbelief found that it now weighs 871 grams. Last I checked (in Amman) it used to weigh 849gr! After being in Singapore for a few months, it's 'gained' a healthy 22gr! That's a 2.6% weight increase in the moister climate!

Not sure if this would apply as a rule or thumb, but it seems like the climate phenomenon works both ways: the wood will 'lose weight' when sent to an arid country like Jordan, but it will gain the weight right back if brought to moister shores..... Unbelievable!
 

kesiro

Well-Known Member
#24
I just made an astonishing discovery! Was weighing a Laotian log I've had in my collection for quite some time, and to my disbelief found that it now weighs 871 grams. Last I checked (when I was in Amman) it used to weigh 849gr! After being in Singapore for a few months, it 'gained' a healthy 22gr! That's a 2.6% weight increase in the moister climate!

Not sure if this would apply as a rule or thumb, but it seems like the climate phenomenon works both ways: the wood will 'lose weight' when sent to an arid country like Jordan, but it will gain the weight right back if brought to moister shores..... Unbelievable!
That is absolutely true. Wood will absorb moisture or lose moisture depending on ambient humidity. Not only will it gain or lose weight but also expand or contract in size. As a guitar builder, I often have to let wood sit for years after sourcing so that it "stabilizes". Failing to do so will often result with warping, twisting, shriling, and/or cracking .
 

m.arif

Active Member
#25
@ensar that is indeed an amazing discovery. Sales should be done in this region then.hehe.

@kesiro thanks for the explanation. I was about to suspect some mysterious force at work.haha. so then the moisture loss/gain would be very subjective right? Meaning, say its 100g in Malaysia. Go to Amman it becomes 89g. Return back to Malaysia, it wont necessarily return back to 100g?
 
#26
Finally some sinking Cambodian woods to add to my collection IMG_2684.jpg

Comments....awesome :)

Footnote, it doesn't appear that every one of the pieces are sinking but these are the best smelling and most heavily resinated Cambodi chips I've experienced


I would reallly love to see some snapshots of Taha and Ensars wood collections, I can only imagine what a museum of beautiful wood they hold ...
 

kesiro

Well-Known Member
#27
@ensar that is indeed an amazing discovery. Sales should be done in this region then.hehe.

@kesiro thanks for the explanation. I was about to suspect some mysterious force at work.haha. so then the moisture loss/gain would be very subjective right? Meaning, say its 100g in Malaysia. Go to Amman it becomes 89g. Return back to Malaysia, it wont necessarily return back to 100g?
Yes, that is generally correct. It really depends on the ambient temperature and humidity the wood is subjected to, and for how long. You would really notice this if the wood is naturally very close to the density of water. Therefore, a few grams of moisture more or less, can make it float or sink.
 
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kesiro

Well-Known Member
#28
Finally some sinking Cambodian woods to add to my collection View attachment 471

Comments....awesome :)

Footnote, it doesn't appear that every one of the pieces are sinking but these are the best smelling and most heavily resinated Cambodi chips I've experienced


I would reallly love to see some snapshots of Taha and Ensars wood collections, I can only imagine what a museum of beautiful wood they hold ...
That looks awesome!
 

m.arif

Active Member
#29
@kesiro That is crucial information for anyone who loves oud IMO.

@taherg Looks really awesome! Amazing you can still get wild Cambodian wood.
 

kesiro

Well-Known Member
#30
@kesiro That is crucial information for anyone who loves oud IMO.
I think you give me too much credit. I just think it is important to understand that wood, unless completely finished with waterproof coatings such as polyurethane, is porous and with absorb or give off moisture depending on ambient conditions.

When I buy wood for my guitar building hobby, I will often check the moisture content with a hygrometer. Unless the wood is seasoned, and sitting for at least a year or two in my possession, I will not use it because it is unstable. It is actually shocking to me how much wood shrinks as it dries out, or swells if in a high humidity environment.

I have no experience with floating vs sinking agarwood but have extensive experience with many different wood species. No matter which way you look at it, wood is wood and is porous.

It is also well know that a log, floating in a body of water, will eventually sink as it absorbs moisture. If your agarwood is very close to the density of water, perhaps even a 1-2% increase in moisture may make it slightly denser, therefore sink. If it is much less dense, or much more, slight changes will probably have little effect.
 
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Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#31
Finally some sinking Cambodian woods to add to my collection.
I went to Qatar one time with a bunch of sinking Port Moresby wood. One of the folks who saw it said, 'If I had this kind of wood, I would sell it as very old Cambodi'.

I recently met an Indonesian wood broker who had what looked like really old, really fragrant wood on his hands. 'Check it out,' he said. 'It's old Laos.'

'Is it really?'

'No, of course not. But look at how it bubbles, and see how wonderful it smells!'

'So, where is it from?'

'Well, I got it in Indonesia many years ago, so must be Indonesian...'

--

I can't say much about the scent just by looking at the picture, but so far as looks go, it looks either Malaysian or Sumatran....
 
#32
Allahu a3lam man, it's definitely not Sumatra, I have a few batches of Sumatra and the profile is very distinct.
I'm inclined to believe it's Cambodi; doesn't smell much like the Malay batches i have. Much closer to the other batches of Cambodi I have (assuming thEy are in fact Cambodi)
As famously said...I believe I'm right with the possibility of being wrong. I'd probably say that Malay is the only other possibility, I know wood from there is quite diverse.

Here are Two more pics, the first is the sinking batch and the second is an earlier batch of non sinking Cambodi from the same source.

IMG_2685.jpg
IMG_2686.jpg
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#33
The wood in the bottom picture is Cambodi without a doubt. The top one.......

It's like looking at a fruit salad.... You see slices of diced up dragonfruit, jackfruit, watermelon etc.... After a while you can tell.... The wood in the top picture is not produced by Aquilaria Crassna trees, which is what predominantly grows in Cambodia. The Malaccensis trees of Malaysia (and Sumatra... and even Borneo!) produce wood that looks like that. If you handle this wood long enough, you can spot the difference without much difficulty.

I'd be curious to hear Taha's thoughts.

--

As for woods from the private collection.... You know that saying 'Curiosity killed the cat'? ;)

Here's a slab of old school, carving grade Maroke that smells identical to Oud Royale No 1:


Oud-Royale-1.jpg OR1-back.jpg


And here's a rock solid, China grade log of mind-bending Brunei Kinam:


Brunei-Kinam.jpg Brunei-Kinam-back.jpg
 

kooolaid79

Well-Known Member
#34
When are you going to have those pieces up for sale on your website? How much would something like that cost? What a thing of beauty. Mashallah Sidi Ensar!
 

bhanny

Well-Known Member
#35
Dang Ensar, I wish they had an emoticon here for drooling. Beacause that log of Brunei Kinam is having rather a Pavlovian affects on me. Ensar rings dinner bell..posts pic of Brunei Kinam log..bhanny sits, wide eyed and drooling.
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#38
Alright, gentlemen.... This just in today from the 'Trump Tower' of the China Market.... One of the big bosses harvested a Brunei tree worth several million dollars back in 2011, and has been holding on to every single scrap of it – cleaning dust and all – for the last 5 years.... I begged him to give me that cleaning dust to make oil, and he declined. (This is the same person who supplied the raw materials for Purple Kinam and Borneo Diesel.) He said he was planning to make whiskey out of it! This he did, and called it the 'Brunei Kinam Whiskey' and even offered me a taste of it. When I politely declined, he took it as a blow to our 'brotherhood' which he is very proud of, so he finally decided to part with – close to half a kilogram of actual wood! Thick, chock-full of resin nuggets and twigs, shimmering black resin that smells to die for on my Kyara heater! I'm being listened to by a combo of this and my staple Hainanese Kinam skins right now, and I'm way up in the clouds!....

Without further ado, say hello to my new babies....

IMG_0243.jpg

Okay then Robert, perhaps Ensar would be interested in adopting me?!?
@bhanny. You're welcome anytime, my friend. Whether it be the next OudFest, or to the office in Amman, or my home in Singapore.... Mi casa tu casa, amigo.... :)
 

bhanny

Well-Known Member
#39
@Ensar. I will most assuredly take you up on that someday my friend. I'm very grateful! And the same would obviously be true if you ever make your way to the states. And wow does that wood look awesome, congrats on the new additions!