Sufi Master's 200+ year old Oud wood coffer, opinions appreciated

#1
Greetings all. Happy to be part of this esteemed forum.

To start, I still have much to cover before calling myself an Oud novice, but I've been fortunate enough to leap above several needless Oud stepping stones and directly onto Ensar's creations. To cut a long story short the old man noticed my newly-developed obsession, and bemusingly remarked that we 'once' had an antique coffer made of Oud wood that has been passed down the family for generations. I come from a family with a long lineage in the Rifai' Tariqa of Sufism, and this coffer was passed down -as far as we can confirm- to my great grandfather -passed away in 1910- from his grandfather, the Sheikh of the tariqa. We don't know whether that ancestor acquired it himself or whether it's older still. I naturally could barely contain my excitement and tried to verify whether it's really Oud, and the response was that everyone in the family knew it was Oud, and they're no strangers to Oud, and that my father saw one of my mischievous uncles as a kid break a small piece off to burn it and that it indeed smelled of Oud.

There was only one problem. We weren't sure where that box ended up and my father hadn't seen it since his youth -He's 70- but he assumes it stayed with the family estate somewhere in one of our ancestral villages in Northern Syria. We finally narrowed it down to a village in Northern Syria, Idlib province, where we had a small house that the displaced Syrians have been using temporarily since the beginning of the war. That village happens to be at the fault line between ISIS, Jabhat Nusra, and the Syrian/Russian military, and has been air-bombed several times, not to mention that we were told the contents of the house were probably all stolen.

After the Turkish military entered Idlib earlier this month and pacified the area, we immediately sent one of our relatives to the house, and lo and behold, the box was found intact whereas everything else of value was gone. They sent me the pictures and a video last night via Whatsapp, so apologies for the quality, and it's being kept safe until we can fetch it.

I can't be sure how much of it is actually solid Oud, how saturated it is, or how it's been kept all these years. For all we know it could've been left in the yard under the rain. It has no nails except the ones used for the original lock and hinges, and is pieced together like a puzzle. He used flash when taking pictures, so it looks lighter than it is, but the video conveys a more faithful rendition of the color even though he's still using that awful LED lighting. It also hasn't been cleaned or wiped in half a century most likely.

Let me know what you think.

The video is at

2017-10-24-PHOTO-00000273.jpg 2017-10-24-PHOTO-00000274.jpg 2017-10-24-PHOTO-00000275.jpg 2017-10-24-PHOTO-00000276.jpg
 
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JohnH

Moderator
Staff member
#2
Welcome to the forum, @BuYa3goub and what a wonderful first post. I love the background story to this box and the fact that it's survived for so long, especially getting through the war. I hope it's in your possession before too long.
 
#3
Thank you. Is there any reason to believe it's not Oud, only partially Oud, or is there insufficient data to make that assessment yet? It's about 10 kg, and I personally have never seen full Oud panels like that before. I wasn't aware it was possible, but then again I don't know that much about the topic. If the tree is aged and infected enough, can you cut full panels?
 

kesiro

Well-Known Member
#4
I am no expert but the Aquilaria tree is generally going to be fairly nondescript wood unless it has been infected and full of resin. It is very difficult to tell much about the box from pics, staining, and age but it certainly can be made from Agarwood trees.
A hearty welcome to you!!
 
#5
I am no expert but the Aquilaria tree is generally going to be fairly nondescript wood unless it has been infected and full of resin. It is very difficult to tell much about the box from pics, staining, and age but it certainly can be made from Agarwood trees.
A hearty welcome to you!!
Aquilaria is nondescript but if uninfected it’s light/white wood, and the box is not painted as you can see from the worn/chipped edges, so unless it’s some other dark wood, it ought to be quite resin-laden Oud, or am I missing something?
 

kesiro

Well-Known Member
#6
I merely said it looks stained, not painted. And obviously tarnished by age so it is difficult to tell from the photos. There certainly could be some areas with resin but to have big flat pieces like that, it would be almost impossible for all of it to be resinated. Probably wouldn't be mechanically to stable either, coming from an avid woodworkers perspective. It is an amazing find!
 
#9
Any advice on what steps to take once I have it? How to clean it, assess it...etc? I know less about oud wood than I do about oud oil, and that’s not much at all.
 

kesiro

Well-Known Member
#10
That is a difficult question to answer because it depends. If you treat it like a heirloom relic artifact, you can keep it as is. You could have a qualified furniture restorer look at it and give you some options. Another way is to gently clean it up and keep it as is. As far as assessing the wood, you would obviously have to remove some wood from it, in which case, you have to alter (damage) it some way. The best thing is to wait until you have it in your possession and look at it. :)
 
#14
A hearty welcome @BuYa3goub :)
Unless the chest is made from red aquilaria cumingiana from Maluku, which I highly doubt, it's quite likely that it is another type of aromatic wood (sandalwood, rosewood, etc).
Thank you, and thank you for doing what you’re doing. I’m telling everyone about the New Yorker who embarked on a spiritual journey and found Oud. Al-Jazeera should do a documentary about it. :D

I’ll seize the opportunity of your response to expand my and everybody’s knowledge on the topic. So what makes the red aquilaria cumingiana out of all the other aquilarias the only possible tree to make a box like that out of, and why is it highly doubtful that it is from that tree? Rarity? Unavailability during that era?

Not trying to insist it is Oud or anything, I’m just glad a family heirloom has been recovered, and we’ll find out soon enough what it’s made of, just trying to learn more from someone of your Oud stature.
 
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Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#15
Thank you, and thank you for doing what you’re doing. I’m telling everyone about the New Yorker who embarked on a spiritual journey and found Oud. Al-Jazeera should do a documentary about it. :D

I’ll seize the opportunity of your interjection to expand my and everybody’s knowledge on the topic. So what makes the red aquilaria cumingiana out of all the other aquilarias the only possible tree to make a box like that out of, and why is it highly doubtful that it is from that tree? Rarity? Unavailability during that era?

Not trying to insist it is Oud or anything, I’m just glad a family heirloom has been recovered, and we’ll find out soon enough what it’s made of, just trying to learn more from someone of your Oud stature.
You're welcome, brother. May Allah bless you for your good opinion, and make us worthy and deserving.

We can only speak about that which we've experienced. It is not impossible for other strains of aquilaria to produce such wood; I've just never seen anything even remotely resembling it, apart from the Maluku cumingianas which coincidentally were also recently sold to the Chinese for the purpose of making furniture. The reason I'm skeptical of it being Maluku wood is because agarwood had yet to be harvested in Maluku that many generations ago; the earliest harvest was probably mid-1990s.

I'm happy to hear the chest remains intact after all the destruction that befell everything else around it. Clearly a sign from Allah validating the sanctity of the Sheikh. May Allah enable us to benefit from him and you, and grant us the visage of his coffer of Barakah! :)
 
#16
Greetings all. Happy to be part of this esteemed forum.

To start, I still have much to cover before calling myself an Oud novice, but I've been fortunate enough to leap above several needless Oud stepping stones and directly onto Ensar's creations. To cut a long story short the old man noticed my newly-developed obsession, and bemusingly remarked that we 'once' had an antique coffer made of Oud wood that has been passed down the family for generations. I come from a family with a long lineage in the Rifai' Tariqa of Sufism, and this coffer was passed down -as far as we can confirm- to my great grandfather -passed away in 1910- from his grandfather, the Sheikh of the tariqa. We don't know whether that ancestor acquired it himself or whether it's older still. I naturally could barely contain my excitement and tried to verify whether it's really Oud, and the response was that everyone in the family knew it was Oud, and they're no strangers to Oud, and that my father saw one of my mischievous uncles as a kid break a small piece off to burn it and that it indeed smelled of Oud.

There was only one problem. We weren't sure where that box ended up and my father hadn't seen it since his youth -He's 70- but he assumes it stayed with the family estate somewhere in one of our ancestral villages in Northern Syria. We finally narrowed it down to a village in Northern Syria, Idlib province, where we had a small house that the displaced Syrians have been using temporarily since the beginning of the war. That village happens to be at the fault line between ISIS, Jabhat Nusra, and the Syrian/Russian military, and has been air-bombed several times, not to mention that we were told the contents of the house were probably all stolen.

After the Turkish military entered Idlib earlier this month and pacified the area, we immediately sent one of our relatives to the house, and lo and behold, the box was found intact whereas everything else of value was gone. They sent me the pictures and a video last night via Whatsapp, so apologies for the quality, and it's being kept safe until we can fetch it.

I can't be sure how much of it is actually solid Oud, how saturated it is, or how it's been kept all these years. For all we know it could've been left in the yard under the rain. It has no nails except the ones used for the original lock and hinges, and is pieced together like a puzzle. He used flash when taking pictures, so it looks lighter than it is, but the video conveys a more faithful rendition of the color even though he's still using that awful LED lighting. It also hasn't been cleaned or wiped in half a century most likely.

Let me know what you think.

The video is at

View attachment 770 View attachment 771 View attachment 772 View attachment 773
Salamulikum, you brought tears to my eyes brother, feels like a miracle , and you humbled my heart

Here is a link of old Aggarwood Furniture , and sotheby's has a large data base on old ancient furnitures , if you email them they can definitely help you out in the future InshaAllah

https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/278533480/on-sale-chinese-agarwood-stands-377-set
 

Larry K.

Active Member
#18
Greetings all. Happy to be part of this esteemed forum.

To start, I still have much to cover before calling myself an Oud novice, but I've been fortunate enough to leap above several needless Oud stepping stones and directly onto Ensar's creations. To cut a long story short the old man noticed my newly-developed obsession, and bemusingly remarked that we 'once' had an antique coffer made of Oud wood that has been passed down the family for generations. I come from a family with a long lineage in the Rifai' Tariqa of Sufism, and this coffer was passed down -as far as we can confirm- to my great grandfather -passed away in 1910- from his grandfather, the Sheikh of the tariqa. We don't know whether that ancestor acquired it himself or whether it's older still. I naturally could barely contain my excitement and tried to verify whether it's really Oud, and the response was that everyone in the family knew it was Oud, and they're no strangers to Oud, and that my father saw one of my mischievous uncles as a kid break a small piece off to burn it and that it indeed smelled of Oud.

There was only one problem. We weren't sure where that box ended up and my father hadn't seen it since his youth -He's 70- but he assumes it stayed with the family estate somewhere in one of our ancestral villages in Northern Syria. We finally narrowed it down to a village in Northern Syria, Idlib province, where we had a small house that the displaced Syrians have been using temporarily since the beginning of the war. That village happens to be at the fault line between ISIS, Jabhat Nusra, and the Syrian/Russian military, and has been air-bombed several times, not to mention that we were told the contents of the house were probably all stolen.

After the Turkish military entered Idlib earlier this month and pacified the area, we immediately sent one of our relatives to the house, and lo and behold, the box was found intact whereas everything else of value was gone. They sent me the pictures and a video last night via Whatsapp, so apologies for the quality, and it's being kept safe until we can fetch it.

I can't be sure how much of it is actually solid Oud, how saturated it is, or how it's been kept all these years. For all we know it could've been left in the yard under the rain. It has no nails except the ones used for the original lock and hinges, and is pieced together like a puzzle. He used flash when taking pictures, so it looks lighter than it is, but the video conveys a more faithful rendition of the color even though he's still using that awful LED lighting. It also hasn't been cleaned or wiped in half a century most likely.

Let me know what you think.

The video is at

View attachment 770 View attachment 771 View attachment 772 View attachment 773
Wow! What a treasure! Blessings to you for rediscovering this inheritance in your family. I hope it is restored to you to serve as a gift and a memory from those who came before you.