The Ensar & Taha Letters

5MeO

Well-Known Member
#24
I'm getting phantom whiffs of those oils just watching the video!

@5MeO, how many sons you got? ;)
Lol, I have 3 young sons actually (5, 7, and 8). I would be very interested in trading one of two of them for some of these new oils - however they are all currently working in a local chicken processing factory... Our new president here in the USA eliminated the child labor laws upon taking office (to help make the country great again) - and so I promptly sent my boys off to work, to make a little extra money for "important household expenses"...
 

Oudamberlove

Well-Known Member
#26
@Taha or @Ensar
Nice video post.
What are the notes of that special Sri Lankan oil?
As for wild wood, what is the forecast for the Papuan jungles, also for Sumatra?
It's ironic why Artisanal distillation came around during the time when good wood is disappearing.
For one that always looks at the bright side, at least we got in at the tail-end, and have enough gems to suffice;) and some of us were able to experience what wizards at the pot could achieve:)
 

Taha

Well-Known Member
#28
Lol, I have 3 young sons actually (5, 7, and 8). I would be very interested in trading one of two of them for some of these new oils - however they are all currently working in a local chicken processing factory... Our new president here in the USA eliminated the child labor laws upon taking office (to help make the country great again) - and so I promptly sent my boys off to work, to make a little extra money for "important household expenses"...
5, 7, and 8, perfect. :)
Once they're done paying for those important household expenses, I can think of 3 other important household expenses they can start working for. ;)

@Taha or @Ensar
Nice video post.
What are the notes of that special Sri Lankan oil?
As for wild wood, what is the forecast for the Papuan jungles, also for Sumatra?
It's ironic why Artisanal distillation came around during the time when good wood is disappearing.
For one that always looks at the bright side, at least we got in at the tail-end, and have enough gems to suffice;) and some of us were able to experience what wizards at the pot could achieve:)
Call me crazy, but it smells like white kinam.
Sumatra isn't faring too well (more or less the same situation as Malaysia), but Papua is doing better. 'Better' is relative though. The Chinese have been sending armies of Vietnamese hunters there for a little over a decade now. The problem is: whenever armies of Kinh or Khmer experts are sent anywhere with a very specific mission, things change very quickly. Just ask Adam why he hasn't cooked Sabah oud in a very long time. I know the Khmer-Malaysian guy (Mokhtar) who moved to Sabah about a year ago. Before his arrival, there were plenty of mother trees in Sabah. After he arrived, he sent out an army of 'White Walkers' into the jungle, and, well, we've all seen what White Walkers do (Game of Thrones reference). The Kinh hunters are even more ruthless. Whereas Khmers flee if they sense hostility, the Kinh whip out there AK47's. Those Danis down in Papua can't handle the Kinh, they can't stop them, no one can. :( In Sarawak right now, they are my number 1 headache. I'm telling you... we've been to places you'd think no one's stepped foot in before, e.g. this one jungle that requires a flight followed by a 4 hour 4x4 ride, followed by 48 hours on four boats, followed by 4 hours on foot.. just to reach the place. And guess what.. when we got there, the locals informed us that just before us, a team of 20 (or was it 10?) Kinh armed with AK47's had already entered the jungle. Like, what the HECK...
Any way, overall Papua is still faring the best. I think there's a good 5 years worth of mother trees left. I could be wrong though, I was certainly wrong about peninsular Malaysia!

Lol at 5meo, thought for a second taha was rubbing coke on his gums. :eek:
Coke? Psh... this stuff was more hardcore than measly coke.

It is simply a joy to see two people who have dedicated their lives to an art meeting and discussing and getting along! Thank you very much for sharing!
Shabby, I know you're on a Walla Patta mission. So you better start evaluating the value of your first-born; you may need to join 5MeO in the shameless lengths he'll go to. ;)
 

kesiro

Well-Known Member
#29
Right on shabby! I agree 100%. The passion and dedication to their craft comes across very easily. Thanks so much Kruger for posting this!
 

bhanny

Well-Known Member
#30
Wow, that was awesome guys. Kruger, thank you for posting. A few things.
1. Taha, yes, I am a hopeless case.
2. I have just purchased my plane ticket and will not take no for an answer Ensar!
3. Please keep doing these, really awesome.
4. I now realize I have been pronouncing kinam/kynam incorrectly despite the fact that I can't get enough of it.
5. I've had similar reactions to some of Ensar's oils as well.
 
Last edited:
#33
As a side note, I love how the passion and all around emotions come across in this video. It really makes me appreciate any oil that I have from Ensar and Taha. I have several sample vials that have just enough molecules left to remind you of the scent. I refuse to throw them away as they are too precious and videos like this reaffirm that
 

bhanny

Well-Known Member
#34
As a side note, I love how the passion and all around emotions come across in this video. It really makes me appreciate any oil that I have from Ensar and Taha. I have several sample vials that have just enough molecules left to remind you of the scent. I refuse to throw them away as they are too precious and videos like this reaffirm that
I think that is a great point. The passion. And agree, it makes me appreciate the oils that much more.
 

Kruger

Well-Known Member
#36
Looking at Vietnam geographically, its such a long country latitudinally, bordering China, Laos, Thailand and Cambodia, what is the predominant species of agarwood? Sinensis? Crassna?
Rather than pretend to be a scientist, let me whip out my journalist's hat and tell it like it is. I'm going to let everyone in on a little secret concerning agarwood…

Nobody harvests 'species'… nobody distills 'species' (well, maybe except for @Taha)… and most certainly nobody smells 'species'…

On the ground, Vietnamese hunters differentiate between the two varieties native to their jungles by looking at the leaves of the trees. You've got either 'round leaf' or 'narrow leaf'. To translate these to their Latinized or 'scientific' equivalents, the 'round leaf' would be aquilaria crassna and the 'narrow leaf' aquilaria baneonsis.

Other experts who have their hands full of agarwood are content with the geographic locales in discriminating between the varieties of agarwood trees. Professional horticulturists in China would refer to the various trees as 'Vietnamese' aquilaria, 'Chinese' aquilaria, 'Malaysian' aquilaria, instead of calling them by their Latin names.

Ironically, the academics who are more 'scientifically' inclined are the people with the least firsthand experience with agarwood – and the people who talk about leaf types and locale varieties are the ones who know everything. Agarwood is not a university subject, is the bottom line. The scientist will tell you that aquilaria agallocha and aquilaria baillonii are present in Vietnam, but the jungle veterans insist there's only 'round leaf' and 'narrow leaf' to be found in their jungles…
 

Taha

Well-Known Member
#37
Ha! That is so true.
In fact, even my MOST expert hunters don't even know the actual names of the species they harvested. :p
I remember how they'd explain it to me, whenever we'd hit a different sort of terrain. I, trying to determine the species in trying to determine what the aroma + distillation techniques would thus be, would ask 'Candan?' Or 'Gaharu?' And the answer would just be a grunt 'Nnhhh!' with an arm gesture - either looking like choking an invisible neck to indicate a skinny tree (Candan) or hugging an elephant (Gaharu).
Or sometimes making diamond shapes of different sizes with their two hands, indicating the leaf size.

The truth of the matter is that we ourselves have encountered SO many differences within a matter of just a few hundred feet that's it's impossible to know the species for sure.
My gut feeling, and I could be wrong is that there are SO many sub-species that it's almost impossible to state a scientific name with 100% certainty. There must be a ton of cross-breeding going on.
Cases in point:
1) I've seen trees that pretty much look exactly like Microcarpa and yet don't smell exactly like they 'should'
2) I've seen a tree whose oud, ie aromatic good stuff, started right at the bark layer -- whereas typically it would/should start a couple inches inside the tree.
3) I've come across 'Walla Patta' wood which has as much in common with standard WP as Borneo gaharu has with Borneo candan.

Now having said that, classifying woods into species definitely helps. It not only allows customers to somewhat 'know' what to expect from an oil, but it also helps in designing the distillation and coming up with certain parameter standards.
For example: trees that trigger a grunt + 'large' gesture in Malaysia have a comparatively softer resin. Trees that trigger a grunt + 'small' gesture have a comparatively hard and brittle resin + extremely tough wood fibres.
The two require very different distillation parameters.

In Malaysia, the simplic big (gaharu) vs small (candan) classification is not only the most common but in fact it's sufficient for determining the most significant distillation parameters. Any other tweaks can be implemented on the go, after the distillation has already commenced (eg by checking the hydrosol).

Here's what's interesting though... the scientific classification of north Malaysian (eg Kelantan) 'big' trees is actually NOT malaccensis, it's something else. And yet the trees are called gaharu. And their leaves and fruits look exactly the same as south Malaysian (eg Johor) malaccensis.
Likewise, in Sarawak, there are two different species that can be classified as Candan, size-wise as well as leaf-wise.. and yet.. one we commonly call Microcarpa and the other Hirta. They look almost the same and yet the aroma difference is huge. Sometimes the visual difference will be prominent enough to assume a different species (eg leaves are fuzzy = high altitude Candan, vs rubbery translucent valley vs smooth opaque hill Candan) and yet the aroma is identical.

The moral of the story is...
There are probably more of Napolean Dynamite's ligers roaming around, than lions and tigers. :)

In plantations however, you can expect very specific (and exact) special identification. Because the leaves, seeds etc were examined by scientists and identified, and then propagated in the farm.
In the wild, it's very different. Definitely lots of ligers!
 

Taha

Well-Known Member
#38
@Ensar @Taha @Adam @Kruger
Or anyone. Looking at Vietnam geographically, its such a long country latitudinally, bordering China, Laos, Thailand and Cambodia, what is the predominant species of agarwood? Sinensis? Crassna?
I've come across 3 distinct scent profiles in Vietnamese wood. One is Sinesis (or Sinesis liger) for sure as it has a lot in common with pure Chinese wood, as well as northern areas of different countries bordering China. Another is Crassna (or Crassna liger) for sure, which has a lot in common with Khao Yai Thai, south Lao and some Cambodian wood. And the third, I don't know.
I've found the Khao Yai type to be the most common.. sweet and fruity like the former (but more cherries and grapes and less peaches and honey). So my money is on Crassna being the most predominant.

As a side note, all the reports I've seen for Vietnamese kyara have indicated the test sample was Sinesis, due to the presence of compounds that are unique to Sinesis agarwood only. However, there could very well be many more tests and lab reports that I haven't seen, of Vietnamese kyara that was found to be Crassna.
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#40
The truth of the matter is that we ourselves have encountered SO many differences within a matter of just a few hundred feet that's it's impossible to know the species for sure. My gut feeling, and I could be wrong is that there are SO many sub-species that it's almost impossible to state a scientific name with 100% certainty. There must be a ton of cross-breeding going on.

Here's what's interesting though... the scientific classification of north Malaysian (eg Kelantan) 'big' trees is actually NOT malaccensis, it's something else. And yet the trees are called gaharu. And their leaves and fruits look exactly the same as south Malaysian (eg Johor) malaccensis.
Likewise, in Sarawak, there are two different species that can be classified as Candan, size-wise as well as leaf-wise.. and yet.. one we commonly call Microcarpa and the other Hirta. They look almost the same and yet the aroma difference is huge. Sometimes the visual difference will be prominent enough to assume a different species (eg leaves are fuzzy = high altitude Candan, vs rubbery translucent valley vs smooth opaque hill Candan) and yet the aroma is identical.

The moral of the story is...
There are probably more of Napolean Dynamite's ligers roaming around, than lions and tigers. :)

I have always found the whole 'species' classification to be more of a handicap than anything else. My biggest reservation with it is, I highly doubt much of it is correct. Like, how can you say Vietnam is predominantly crassna when Vietnamese oud is so distinct to Thai & Cambodian? The species classification, in this case, causes more confusion than it explains anything. It would make you think that other factors, like soil composition and strain of fungus attacking the tree, are more relevant to the oleoresin than the type of tree producing it. Which is totally counter-intuitive.

I would have thought Vietnam to be predominantly Sinensis, just because of the prevalence of kyara-bearing trees in Vietnam historically. Yet the 'scientific' facts tell us otherwise, as Kruger pointed out. Taxonomists have only identified aquilaria crassna and baneonsis in Vietnam. Go figure! Either the science is totally wrong, or the way we think about these trees is completely misguided. Case in point: Kyara. If Vietnam was predominantly crassna, you'd find the same prevalence and concentration of Kyara-bearing trees in Thailand as you do in Vietnam. But you don't. The only other locale with a similar concentration of kyara was South China, Hainan particularly. And here you have aquilaria sinensis as the predominant species.

So one of two things: either kyara formation is not species-specific, and is more dependent on soil composition and other factors – or the trees of Vietnam are a completely different 'type' of aquilaria crassna – which also renders species categorization rather useless.

Yet another way to look at it. Suppose Vietnamese agarwood – the very best of it – is indeed sinensis. How can we explain the fact that it smells completely different to the sinensis harvested in Yunnan, Hainan, Hong Kong? Either the breakdown into species is too broad to provide any useful information (locale-specific categorization is a lot more useful, for all practical purposes), or other ecosystem-relevant factors are more pertinent.

Brilliant question @bhanny. A lot of this stuff needs to be discussed and explained so as to avoid a ton of confusion.
 
Last edited: