What does a distiller look for when smelling an oil?

[Oudamberlove]

Glad you've been enjoying Ayu, AmberyOudLover!
I hope you're still discovering new delightful facets (my discoveries came to an end after a whopping 3 whole months with the oil).

And speaking of Malaysian oud... I had a Malaya partay today. King Taha and the Knights of the Square Table.
View attachment 807
Maybe I'll share the juicy details of what the meet-up was all about later.
But since this is the SOTD thread, I can tell you the four chaps got healthy swipes of Vietnamese oud (as did @m.arif who isn't pictured here since he was taking the photo, but that adorable little girl is his daughter). Those swipes were an essential part of getting what I was trying to convey to them, burnt into their brains.
As for my SOTD, Sultan Ahmad.
Woooph.. with its fumes floating around your sinuses.. your head will be up so high in the clouds, you'll be so chill, that you won't feel any discomfiture pointing out to a Malay hunter (pictured right side) straight to his face what the problems with their (Malay) style gaharu hunting are.
Wait, did I just reveal what the meeting was about?

Request for mods: could my off-topic earlier post (and everything related to it that came after) be moved to a more appropriate thread, say, the Let's Talk Oud thread?

Ameen!

Shahril too!
Cooooolness!

 

[Taha]

[...]
But we must not forget to speak layman terms and lend a holding hand to newbies. We can’t expect all to know or feel or even understand what you are talking about. I get it fully because of working in an awfully similar field.

100% agree.
In fact, I could talk about hocus pocus 'energy' of agarwood and so on till I'm blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is: what first attracted me to oud (and what still is a significant factor in oud evaluation) was.. the aroma. And of course its still something I love.
And without a doubt, its the reason why 99.99% of folks who get curious about oud (as well as those who totally love it) even bother with it. And so, the aroma is something that cannot be trivialized.

Now, if the thread title read "What does a distiller look for when assessing agarwood raw material?" then.. hmm, well.. actually... I think just that rewording most likely suggests to you how I personally approach it.

And yep, you are 100% correct; there are a whole lotta similarities with your field. What's fascinating is that I have 3 customers who are either enologists or otherwise-directly work in the wine business (at least 3, that I am aware of – Canuck, Frenchman, and Yank), and I have not only benefited from all 3 of you, but perhaps what's even more fascinating is that the 3 of you share a lot in common in how you assess oud oils.

One thing I learned about, from the Frenchman, is Vin Jaune. Very intriguing! Particularly how its aging (in some ways) is similar to crudely-distilled-but-high-grade oud oils, vis-à-vis more pristine traditional red and white wines behaving/aging more like pristinely distilled oud oils.

Shahril too!
Cooooolness!

Yep, that's the guy m.arif was referring to.
Once everyone's wrists were swiped, I don't recall him talking much after that!

 

[Rasoul S]

100% agree.
In fact, I could talk about hocus pocus 'energy' of agarwood and so on till I'm blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is: what first attracted me to oud (and what still is a significant factor in oud evaluation) was.. the aroma. And of course its still something I love.
And without a doubt, its the reason why 99.99% of folks who get curious about oud (as well as those who totally love it) even bother with it. And so, the aroma is something that cannot be trivialized.

Now, if the thread title read "What does a distiller look for when assessing agarwood raw material?" then.. hmm, well.. actually... I think just that rewording most likely suggests to you how I personally approach it.

And yep, you are 100% correct; there are a whole lotta similarities with your field. What's fascinating is that I have 3 customers who are either enologists or otherwise-directly work in the wine business (at least 3, that I am aware of – Canuck, Frenchman, and Yank), and I have not only benefited from all 3 of you, but perhaps what's even more fascinating is that the 3 of you share a lot in common in how you assess oud oils.

One thing I learned about, from the Frenchman, is Vin Jaune. Very intriguing! Particularly how its aging (in some ways) is similar to crudely-distilled-but-high-grade oud oils, vis-à-vis more pristine traditional red and white wines behaving/aging more like pristinely distilled oud oils.

Yep, that's the guy m.arif was referring to.
Once everyone's wrists were swiped, I don't recall him talking much after that!

oooh vin jaune. you gotta visit me. i got a whack. some quite old. and if madeira is your thing (read it as it should be) i have some treasures from late 1800s. rancio note to the max. is addictive scent and flavour like the best oud. as for vin jaune here is some fact for you: the same compound in fenugreek is one that is developed in aged vin jane. called sotolon. it is a lactone. like fenugreek it doesn't get broken down by your liver and as such your clothes will smell like it from your sweat.

@Taha on to your first sentence. are you saying most or all or a vast majority of us ouddicts or oudheads or whatever you want to call us, are into oud mostly b/c of the medicinal properties aside from the obvious: complex and beguiling aromatics? i am curious as to how people see the strength of medicinal qualities. e.g. is it like coffee or weaker influence like tea? or is it stronger than coffee like multi turkish coffee hits? or are we talking equivalent of how one feels after a couple of beers or a glass or two of wine? lastly have you or anyone nailed down which oud origin or type gives what type of consistent effects? e.g. the malay oils like ayu, purple kinam, kedah thaqeel... along with sri lankans all give me a boost of energy and are uplifting, sobering, and as such mostly a day time scent. vietnamese oils, papua, new guinea tend to be night time oils. they mellow me.

 

[Taha]

oooh vin jaune. you gotta visit me. i got a whack. some quite old. and if madeira is your thing (read it as it should be) i have some treasures from late 1800s. rancio note to the max. is addictive scent and flavour like the best oud. as for vin jaune here is some fact for you: the same compound in fenugreek is one that is developed in aged vin jane. called sotolon. it is a lactone. like fenugreek it doesn't get broken down by your liver and as such your clothes will smell like it from your sweat.

Ah, I don't drink.
I do appreciate the gesture though!

@Taha on to your first sentence. are you saying most or all or a vast majority of us ouddicts or oudheads or whatever you want to call us, are into oud mostly b/c of the medicinal properties aside from the obvious: complex and beguiling aromatics?

Oh no, I'm saying the opposite. I think that at a conscious level, most folks are into oud and more importantly have preferences between the various scent genres and species of oud, because of the scent. Not because of the therapeutic properties. However, I ALSO do think that those who venture into the world of top shelf oils unknowingly love the higher quality oils (exponentially more) perhaps without fully realizing that part of the reason is not just an addition of scent notes or their refinement, but also because they possess a certain quality that's hard to put your finger on.

"There's something about Oil XYZ...."

If you were to reduce Oud Appreciation down to the trivial process of making a check list of the scent notes when comparing inferior oil ABC to superior oil XYZ (and lets say happen to share a lot of scent notes in common), you'll run nose-first into a wall.
On paper, you might identify the same scent notes, perhaps add a few notes in the case of the superior oil.
But when you do a side-by-side, there's that same old "there's something about Oil XYZ...."

I can give two real life examples, because these two I find oft-recurring. Borneo 3000 and Purple Kinam. How many times have you seen other oils compared to these two? It sounds like there are tons of oils out there that smell 'the same' apparently.

And yet, when you swipe them and their doppelgangers simultaneously.........

I think you get my point.
Fully aware of the risk of another round of rolling eyes, I'll say it again: Z-axis. Or call it the therapeutic effects. Or the energy. Or the Qi. Doesn't matter what you call it, its the "that something" which you can't put on paper.

i am curious as to how people see the strength of medicinal qualities. e.g. is it like coffee or weaker influence like tea? or is it stronger than coffee like multi turkish coffee hits? or are we talking equivalent of how one feels after a couple of beers or a glass or two of wine? lastly have you or anyone nailed down which oud origin or type gives what type of consistent effects? e.g. the malay oils like ayu, purple kinam, kedah thaqeel... along with sri lankans all give me a boost of energy and are uplifting, sobering, and as such mostly a day time scent. vietnamese oils, papua, new guinea tend to be night time oils. they mellow me.

Well, for me its like a strong puerh Qi... which feels different from (high grade) oil to (high grade) oll, just as its different from puerh to puerh.
Well-made low quality oud oils lack the Qi. But they can still smell pretty nice.

 

[Rasoul S]

Ah, I don't drink.
I do appreciate the gesture though!

Oh no, I'm saying the opposite. I think that at a conscious level, most folks are into oud and more importantly have preferences between the various scent genres and species of oud, because of the scent. Not because of the therapeutic properties. However, I ALSO do think that those who venture into the world of top shelf oils unknowingly love the higher quality oils (exponentially more) perhaps without fully realizing that part of the reason is not just an addition of scent notes or their refinement, but also because they possess a certain quality that's hard to put your finger on.

"There's something about Oil XYZ...."

If you were to reduce Oud Appreciation down to the trivial process of making a check list of the scent notes when comparing inferior oil ABC to superior oil XYZ (and lets say happen to share a lot of scent notes in common), you'll run nose-first into a wall.
On paper, you might identify the same scent notes, perhaps add a few notes in the case of the superior oil.
But when you do a side-by-side, there's that same old "there's something about Oil XYZ...."

I can give two real life examples, because these two I find oft-recurring. Borneo 3000 and Purple Kinam. How many times have you seen other oils compared to these two? It sounds like there are tons of oils out there that smell 'the same' apparently.

And yet, when you swipe them and their doppelgangers simultaneously.........

I think you get my point.
Fully aware of the risk of another round of rolling eyes, I'll say it again: Z-axis. Or call it the therapeutic effects. Or the energy. Or the Qi. Doesn't matter what you call it, its the "that something" which you can't put on paper.

Well, for me its like a strong puerh Qi... which feels different from (high grade) oil to (high grade) oll, just as its different from puerh to puerh.
Well-made low quality oud oils lack the Qi. But they can still smell pretty nice.

Hear you loud and clear. I am convinced many use oud for its grounding meditative qualities and others most as fragrance but former is always playing a part. Oud is beyond a wonderful scent.