Kyara Note

[OudFreak]

I was wondering whether the kyara note in Crassna Cha is a perfect replica of the bitter note of real Kyara LTD, or just a shadow of it.

Also, I was going to order an oil that has a point where you can smell the kyara note perfectly. Any oils like that?(Including legendary ones, which I will order specially)

P.S.: I don't want to have to buy two organic ouds worth of kyara just to smell the note, though I will if I cannot smell it perfectly in an oil(except for Kyara LTD)

Thanks!

 

[masstika]

Oudfreak: are you referring to the actual Kyara scentl as in Green Kyara chips by Baieido or you're talking about the Ensar's Kyara LTD oil note?

 

[OudFreak]

What is the difference, masstika? Seeing as Ensar got the Kyara LTD oil from best quality kyara wood, shouldn't the oil note smell pretty much like kyara chips?
(That is what Ensar wrote on the Kyara LTd page, he said that the oil smells almost exactly like the smoke of green kyara chips, so we are only talking about one note)

 

[masstika]

I can see why you would be confused. we actually discussed this with some friends and some felt it was kind of deceptive to call things Kyara this or that because they are NOT made from kyara chips. Can you just imagine the cost of such a thing if 1 gram of the wood cost $500!!! What I believe Ensar is alluding to and anyone can correct me if I am wrong, is that the oils were made from such a high quality incense grade chips and the distillation process have been mastered to "duplicate" that high Kyara note. But it is definitely not the same as the Kyara you would smell from the burning the tiniest pieces of a Kyara chip. As they say often imitated but never duplicated. Having said that I would say that all the Kyara series oils that Ensar has presented do an admirable and a great job of approximating the smell.

At certain point I read that one of the high end Incense sticks from Baieido were dipped in "Green Kyara 'oil. I wrote to them and they have informed me that there is no such a thing and there has never been. They indicated it was a typo and had the description corrected.

 

[OudFreak]

Thanks masstika!

Could you please tell me any legendary oils that approximate the kyara note?

I know Crassna Cha, Assam kinam, and Borneo Kinam. (I want to buy one legend from every country in stock and one oil that approximates the kyara note.)

Thanks!

BTW, I have read in some places that kyara is made by leaving the wood underground. Is this true? I thought that Ensar had meant that he had found a ''kyara'' tree by the border of China, because he said that Aquilaria sinensis grows in China.

 

[masstika]

personally, I love Encens Khmer and Kyara de Kalbar. Both are fantastic oils with a very close and pronounced Kyara notes. I read that as well about the trees underground but my understanding is that the tree dies and falls to the ground and then it is aged and not hat people bury the tree underground. I don't think it is fully understood how Kyara is formed or what are the characteristics and I think it is kept secretive and ambiguous intentionally to outsiders. I am affraid to say that if Ensar had found a "tree" of Kyara he would have been retired by now

 

[Igor01]

I've only smelled the actual kyara chips once and my recollection of the scent is probably too faint but if I were to pick one of Oriscent oils that has the most resemblance I'd probably nominate Royal Kinam with Kyara Koutan being a close second.

 

[Ensar Oud]

@masstika: Kyara wood runs $500 per gram if the tree is allowed to mature enough for it to become fully resinated and hardened into what in another, 'standard' aquilaria tree would be termed 'super' grade oud wood. But what would happen if you harvest a tree containing so-called 'kyara' wood just before the wood reaches the degree of resination for it to be termed 'kyara' and command the $500 price tag? – i.e. when the wood is in the phase that oil extraction is most suitable? – Is it still 'kyara' wood? Or just normal agarwood? And what would an oil extracted from such a tree smell like?

When we distilled Kyara LTD and for the very first time smelled the first yield to come out of the stills, I was personally CONVINCED that this was distilled from kyara wood.

 

[masstika]

Interesting Proposition there, Ensar. I would have to say that if you distill the wood before it becomes Kyara it is still not Kyara. the reason being, that not every Double Super or King Super becomes a Kyara so unless you have a kyara in your hand there is no telling that the wood you have in your hand will become a Kyara and it is just not a matter of the aging otherwise everyone out there would just sit on their wood and wait for it to become a Kyara at old age and hence their retirement As you wouldn't call a "child" a "man" or "Yogurt" for "Milk" I think a Kyara is a Kyara. I understand that the standard of Kyara varies from one Japanese Incense house to another and it also varies based on Origin.

I think it is good to provide clarity to people so one would know what they are buying and not think that the oil comes from the 500$ kayar chips.

 

[Ensar Oud]

I think your understanding of Kyara is very different to what the Japanese houses maintain, masstika. If I'm not mistaken, you're saying that any agarwood tree could potentially mature into Kyara, just as any type of milk could turn into yoghurt?

What we hold is that Kyara is a special species of agarwood tree, irrespective of the degree of maturation. Hence, you may even have a 'Kyara sapling' that if matured enough will definitely yield Kyara wood. There is a very fine line in what constitutes Kyara as opposed to just highly resinated 'green' smelling Vietnamese agarwood, and the test for this is a molecular analysis of the resin.

PS: Nowhere did we state that we distilled actual $500 kyara chips into oil. Rather, we stated that the oil smells exactly like the scent given off by burning kyara chips, which it does.

 

[OudFreak]

Hey Ensar!

Do you still have a sample of Kyara LTD? I really want to have oil that smells like kyara, but will never be able to get any unless you help me out(And no, I can not buy the Kyara LTD bottle on offer for 4500 USD). I asked Thomas for a catalogue of all the LTD's you have in stock and will ever have along with country and price, but he hasn't responded.

P.S.: If you have no Kyara LTD, could you please tell me which oil you still have is the closest to the burning chips smell?

Thanks!

 

[Oudiferous]

The Kyara note is well-pronounced in many of Ensar's oils. Most notably: Oud Royale No. 1, Oud Royale No. 2, Kyara Koutan, Kyara LTD, Oud Yusuf, Borneo Kinam, Borneo 3000 (in no particular order).

As for Crassna Cha sharing a Kyara note with Kyara LTD, I'm not totally sure. There is certainly a tea-green note in Crassna Cha, but it never reminded me of Kyara. I'll have to revisit the oil. I did find that Thai Encens No. 2 approximates a green Kyara note in Kyara LTD more than other oils I have smelled.

OudFreak, by far the oil closest the smell of burning Oud chips is Oud Royale No. 1. Although I have not smelled Sultani, I'm sure it is close as well. Borneo Kinam also smells like burning Oud chips to me, with some heavenly sweetness added in. None of these are really in your price range though, and two of them are already Legends.

 

[Ensar Oud]

Merhaba OudFreak!

We don't have a single drop of Kyara LTD left, but we do have a batch currently aging called Thai Kinam which is the closest replica of Kyara LTD after Thai Encens No 1.

If you want a replica of non-Kyara burning Assam Oud chips, we have a new release coming which I've elaborated on here.

The closest experience to the smoke of heated King Super oud chips is in Oud Sultani. (But to compare Sultani to the smoke of burning oud wood is to do it injustice IMHO.)

 

[masstika]

My experience with Kyara, beside actaully smelling it and owning it is based on my own research on line and conversations with Oller and other Baieidio US representatives, Yamada matsu and other Agarwood and Incense vendors with direct knowledge and access to it but I am no expert by any mean. Regarding its origin I heard both opinion that it is a specific species, some said Aquilaria sinensis, found in China and others said Crassana from Vietnam and yet a third that said Ki-nam can come from any Aquillaria species. I am in no position to say with certainty that it is one way or the other. I also want to be clear that I never implied that you are misleading people with the branding, I was merely pointing out to Oudfreak that the oil does not come from the $500 Kyara chips.
Now, I don't believe/ or at least I have never heard that there is such a thing as Kyara sapling. Most Kyara that I have heard have been found are considered very "old" wood. I don't think that it is understood at all why certain trees go on to become Kyara and others don't.

 

[Ensar Oud]

I've met people from all three camps as well. However when presented with what they deemed 'Kyara' from Borneo and Brunei, I thought to myself that that was mere wishful thinking on their part and did not say anything. The Baieido view is that Kyara comes from Vietnam alone, although they believe it comes from Aquilaria Sinensis, which if translated from the Latin spells out 'Chinese aquilaria'; hence my argument that since harvested on the Chinese border of Burma and yielding a scent that to me was identical to that of kyara wood chips, it is very likely that this was a tree that was bound to resinate to proper Kyara wood had it been left to mature further.

I have to politely disagree with your stance that Kyara only occurs once the tree passes a certain threshold of disease, due to many personal experiences with oud extraction that led me to adopt this view. I believe it is a very specific species of tree that yields Kyara agarwood when exposed to a certain unique type of infection. The infection may be very old or very new, but the agarwood inside the tree is one and the same byproduct of it, whether very young kien which is only useful for oil extraction, or hard incense-grade resin, which by that stage can safely be identified as 'Kyara' wood.

 

[Oudiferous]

Ensar, which of your oils is distilled from this Kyara-yielding species you speak of?

 

[Ensar Oud]

Judging from the scent and geographical locale alone, Kyara LTD, Royal Kinam and Kyara Koutan would be the prime suspects. The distiller holds that Kyara de Kalbar is from 'Brunei Kyara' wood, which I leave you to be the judges of.