Oud Oil 101
- Thread starter Ensar Oud
- Start date
Floraopia, & Oudramatic, I'm sure your kidding about Royal, seriously I've wanted to ask about the 2 Royals, did you receive any Royal 2, I was lucky enough to grab a bottle, maybe the last bottle, I haven't seen many comments pertaining to #2, there's plenty said about the original Royal. I was curious why #2 was named the same as the king of all oud, are they similiar in scent or was it just a good name, I know they're from 2 separate jungles, countries.
Masstika, that's nice to see a friendly offer like that.
Sample topic: I started with the cheaper oud also most were a waste my $$, I wish Ensar's Oudorable Sampler was around then, I would seriously reccommend it to anyone looking to explore different oud, especially at a very good price, 8, .3gm high & higher end varieties (almost a full bottle total weight), why start anywhere else?
Nice to read good information with friendly comments
Masstika, that's nice to see a friendly offer like that.
Sample topic: I started with the cheaper oud also most were a waste my $$, I wish Ensar's Oudorable Sampler was around then, I would seriously reccommend it to anyone looking to explore different oud, especially at a very good price, 8, .3gm high & higher end varieties (almost a full bottle total weight), why start anywhere else?
Nice to read good information with friendly comments
D.Dog, I haven't tried Royal 2. One difference between the original which I have and this is that the former was hydro distilled. This one is steam. The original is one of a kind. I have smelt one other oil approximating it in smell but Royal 1's depth remains uncharted. There's a few comments in the legends section on the site that might be useful.
Speaking of Steam distillation....
Has anyone here tried distilling their own minute quantities of oil from oud wood? I am assembling a distillation apparatus for something else, but was wondering if I could use it for such things. I would have to add a separatory funnel, but that should be no problem. I love carrying out a process to better understand what is behind the product I am buying. Perhaps I should start a thread on this?
Has anyone here tried distilling their own minute quantities of oil from oud wood? I am assembling a distillation apparatus for something else, but was wondering if I could use it for such things. I would have to add a separatory funnel, but that should be no problem. I love carrying out a process to better understand what is behind the product I am buying. Perhaps I should start a thread on this?
Floraopia, I hope you didn't take it the wrong way, I know you have a great collection, I believed you have Royal '82, what I thought you were kidding about was giving away a sample. I just read your post in the market place I congradulate you, you have a beautiful collection.
Oudramatic, thank you for you your answer!
Have a great day!
Oudramatic, thank you for you your answer!
Have a great day!
It was a very tough day when I found EnsarOUD.com
I made a purchase thinking, WOW this is expensive compared to my OUD from Aj&#. And my attars that I bought from others, while great, were at least 12ml.... While I will always keep the Attars because they truly are good, the "oud" purchased PE (pre-Ensar), are kept merely as a reference for people new to oud so they may smell the difference between "garbage" flat/fake oud and the REAL thing!!!
I realized after getting my first TRUE OUD that I had been wasting my time and money elsewhere!!!
The learning curve for my nose is steep but I have added some fine specimens of oud oils from Ensar and Agar aura. Thomas has been very helpful BTW.
Thank you all for the posts and education you put out so freely!! The only other web site that I can compare this to is my other hobby of straight razor shaving at SRP.
Sadly it has taken until later in life to find out the "truth" of these things but things unfold as they should.
I hope to be enjoying both for many years to come Incha Allah.
Paul
I made a purchase thinking, WOW this is expensive compared to my OUD from Aj&#. And my attars that I bought from others, while great, were at least 12ml.... While I will always keep the Attars because they truly are good, the "oud" purchased PE (pre-Ensar), are kept merely as a reference for people new to oud so they may smell the difference between "garbage" flat/fake oud and the REAL thing!!!
I realized after getting my first TRUE OUD that I had been wasting my time and money elsewhere!!!
The learning curve for my nose is steep but I have added some fine specimens of oud oils from Ensar and Agar aura. Thomas has been very helpful BTW.
Thank you all for the posts and education you put out so freely!! The only other web site that I can compare this to is my other hobby of straight razor shaving at SRP.
Sadly it has taken until later in life to find out the "truth" of these things but things unfold as they should.
I hope to be enjoying both for many years to come Incha Allah.
Paul
Goldsmithing
There are a myriad factors that affect the scent of oud oil, not the least of which is the nature and quality of the raw materials. You can't get Oud Sultani out of $20 wood, just as you can't get a gold coin out of brass no matter what you subject the brass to.
Gold secured, there are a number of things that come into play in shaping the 'profile' of each oil. For example, the mineral content of the water used during distillation has a spectacular effect on the oil. Distil an Indian oil in Evian drinking water, and you might just end up with Oud Yusuf! And we did do just that. We have oils from Assam and Burma and Bhutan which are aging that are as floral, sumptuous and elegant as Oud Yusuf, with absolutely zero barn to them.
But water is only one out of a dozen factors. The material the pot is made of plays a major role, as does the soaking period. What the drums you soak in are made of also matters, as do the ducts inside the boilers. And don't forget the condenser. You might distil 100-year-old Bhutan raw materials in copper with zero soak and get a rosy Oud oil (!!!) yet if you soak them for two weeks and cook in steel the oil will smell more like champaca and tuberose. – Again, none of this would happen with 20-year-old, $20 per kg raw materials.
You might soak in Evian for a week and cook in groundwater; or soak in groundwater for a month and cook in Evian. You might soak in Evian for two weeks then re-soak in groundwater for another two weeks; or soak in groundwater for a week followed by a three-week Evian soak. You might soak in plastic or in clay or in ceramic. You might cook in copper or in stainless steel or in glass. The factors are many, and the ways you can combine them virtually endless....
Hence Oud Sultani, which smells 95% identical to Oud Royale No 1, originated in West Malaysia and the latter in Papua. The gold was 24-carat in both cases, and the smith kinda knew what he was doing.... ; )
There are a myriad factors that affect the scent of oud oil, not the least of which is the nature and quality of the raw materials. You can't get Oud Sultani out of $20 wood, just as you can't get a gold coin out of brass no matter what you subject the brass to.
Gold secured, there are a number of things that come into play in shaping the 'profile' of each oil. For example, the mineral content of the water used during distillation has a spectacular effect on the oil. Distil an Indian oil in Evian drinking water, and you might just end up with Oud Yusuf! And we did do just that. We have oils from Assam and Burma and Bhutan which are aging that are as floral, sumptuous and elegant as Oud Yusuf, with absolutely zero barn to them.
But water is only one out of a dozen factors. The material the pot is made of plays a major role, as does the soaking period. What the drums you soak in are made of also matters, as do the ducts inside the boilers. And don't forget the condenser. You might distil 100-year-old Bhutan raw materials in copper with zero soak and get a rosy Oud oil (!!!) yet if you soak them for two weeks and cook in steel the oil will smell more like champaca and tuberose. – Again, none of this would happen with 20-year-old, $20 per kg raw materials.
You might soak in Evian for a week and cook in groundwater; or soak in groundwater for a month and cook in Evian. You might soak in Evian for two weeks then re-soak in groundwater for another two weeks; or soak in groundwater for a week followed by a three-week Evian soak. You might soak in plastic or in clay or in ceramic. You might cook in copper or in stainless steel or in glass. The factors are many, and the ways you can combine them virtually endless....
Hence Oud Sultani, which smells 95% identical to Oud Royale No 1, originated in West Malaysia and the latter in Papua. The gold was 24-carat in both cases, and the smith kinda knew what he was doing.... ; )
The Golden Mean
The tools and methods used in goldsmithing are many, provided it is real gold one is working with. As opposed to cheap bronze, brass, or even silver. Just as you can't get a gold coin out of brass no matter what you do to the brass, you can't get Oud Sultani out of $20 oud wood no matter how clever a distiller.
Gold secured, there are a number of things that come into play in chiseling the 'profile' of each oud oil. And here is where the real nitty-gritty of artisanal oud distillation begins. For example, the mineral content of the water you use during distillation has a spectacular effect on the oil. Distil an Indian oil in Evian drinking water and you might just end up with Oud Yusuf. We did just that. We have oils from Assam, Meghalaya, Haflong, Burma, Manipur and Bhutan which we are aging that are as floral, sumptuous and elegant as Oud Yusuf, with absolutely zero 'barn' to them.
But water is only one out of a dozen factors. The material the pot is made of plays a major role, as does the soak. What the drums you soak in are made of matters, too, as do the ducts inside the boilers. And don't forget the condenser. You might distil 100-year-old Bhutan raw materials in copper with zero soak and get a rosy Oud oil, yet if you soak them for two weeks and cook in steel the oil will smell more like champaca and tuberose.
You might soak in Evian for a week and cook in groundwater; or soak in groundwater for a month and cook in Evian. You might soak in Evian for two weeks then re-soak in groundwater for another two weeks; or soak in groundwater for a week followed by a three-week Evian soak. You might soak in plastic or in clay or in ceramic. You might cook in copper or in stainless steel or in glass. The variables are many, and the ways you can combine them virtually endless....
After producing the most unusually fruity, floral, and ethereal Assam oils I could have ever dreamt of, from the very finest raw materials possible, I had to stop and have a good sniff at my burgeoning collection of Assam ouds. Here are the Vintage LTDs of the future. Is this really the direction I would like to go with my Assams? Tuberose, champaca, orris and rose notes permeate the latest Bhutan batches, while the Burmese and Haflong oils – successors to Oud Mostafa and Oud Khidr – are permeated by a scent of clean forest, admixing characteristics of sandalwood, agarwood, cedar and other wood aromatics.
The possible tweaks which would elicit similarly unusual notes in future batches are endless. We can hypothetically distill Assam (as well as Cambodian, Thai, Bornean) oils that exhibit the most flamboyant scent profiles. – But we won't.
Here is where the unique aesthetic of the Artisan must come into the picture, take a firm grip of the reins, and direct his journey of olfactory discovery through inventiveness and creativity in the direction that he feels is right.
Just as it wouldn't seem fit for me to take a ton of Turkish rose petals and try to mimic the scent of Oud wood with them – or an incredible jasmine harvest and attempt to evoke cedarwood by manipulating the stills somehow – it would seem equally unbefitting to elicit the scent of flowers, fruits, or other edible confections out of precious oud resin which took decades to mature.
Which direction should we head then, in our Artisanal Oud journey? There is one Golden Mean which raw materials, distillation techniques, and all know-how and expertise of the Artisan can aim to attain in this craft: The scent which that same oud wood gives off when put on heated charcoal.
Any departure from this is a flunk, so far as I'm concerned. Isn't the smoke of burning oud chips the epitome of oud – Kyara and sinking-grade wood being the most sought after types of agarwood? What good is Kyara if it gives off the scent of watermelons?... or honeydew, or apricots, or mangos? It is its status as the epitome of burning oud wood that makes Kyara the most coveted incense in the world. Which is why oud oils that capture its unearthly scent command the highest prices.
The same applies to Assam Oud....
The tools and methods used in goldsmithing are many, provided it is real gold one is working with. As opposed to cheap bronze, brass, or even silver. Just as you can't get a gold coin out of brass no matter what you do to the brass, you can't get Oud Sultani out of $20 oud wood no matter how clever a distiller.
Gold secured, there are a number of things that come into play in chiseling the 'profile' of each oud oil. And here is where the real nitty-gritty of artisanal oud distillation begins. For example, the mineral content of the water you use during distillation has a spectacular effect on the oil. Distil an Indian oil in Evian drinking water and you might just end up with Oud Yusuf. We did just that. We have oils from Assam, Meghalaya, Haflong, Burma, Manipur and Bhutan which we are aging that are as floral, sumptuous and elegant as Oud Yusuf, with absolutely zero 'barn' to them.
But water is only one out of a dozen factors. The material the pot is made of plays a major role, as does the soak. What the drums you soak in are made of matters, too, as do the ducts inside the boilers. And don't forget the condenser. You might distil 100-year-old Bhutan raw materials in copper with zero soak and get a rosy Oud oil, yet if you soak them for two weeks and cook in steel the oil will smell more like champaca and tuberose.
You might soak in Evian for a week and cook in groundwater; or soak in groundwater for a month and cook in Evian. You might soak in Evian for two weeks then re-soak in groundwater for another two weeks; or soak in groundwater for a week followed by a three-week Evian soak. You might soak in plastic or in clay or in ceramic. You might cook in copper or in stainless steel or in glass. The variables are many, and the ways you can combine them virtually endless....
After producing the most unusually fruity, floral, and ethereal Assam oils I could have ever dreamt of, from the very finest raw materials possible, I had to stop and have a good sniff at my burgeoning collection of Assam ouds. Here are the Vintage LTDs of the future. Is this really the direction I would like to go with my Assams? Tuberose, champaca, orris and rose notes permeate the latest Bhutan batches, while the Burmese and Haflong oils – successors to Oud Mostafa and Oud Khidr – are permeated by a scent of clean forest, admixing characteristics of sandalwood, agarwood, cedar and other wood aromatics.
The possible tweaks which would elicit similarly unusual notes in future batches are endless. We can hypothetically distill Assam (as well as Cambodian, Thai, Bornean) oils that exhibit the most flamboyant scent profiles. – But we won't.
Here is where the unique aesthetic of the Artisan must come into the picture, take a firm grip of the reins, and direct his journey of olfactory discovery through inventiveness and creativity in the direction that he feels is right.
Just as it wouldn't seem fit for me to take a ton of Turkish rose petals and try to mimic the scent of Oud wood with them – or an incredible jasmine harvest and attempt to evoke cedarwood by manipulating the stills somehow – it would seem equally unbefitting to elicit the scent of flowers, fruits, or other edible confections out of precious oud resin which took decades to mature.
Which direction should we head then, in our Artisanal Oud journey? There is one Golden Mean which raw materials, distillation techniques, and all know-how and expertise of the Artisan can aim to attain in this craft: The scent which that same oud wood gives off when put on heated charcoal.
Any departure from this is a flunk, so far as I'm concerned. Isn't the smoke of burning oud chips the epitome of oud – Kyara and sinking-grade wood being the most sought after types of agarwood? What good is Kyara if it gives off the scent of watermelons?... or honeydew, or apricots, or mangos? It is its status as the epitome of burning oud wood that makes Kyara the most coveted incense in the world. Which is why oud oils that capture its unearthly scent command the highest prices.
The same applies to Assam Oud....
Hello Ensar. I haven't been on this site for a couple of months and I was just reading this thread. I respect your high quality oils and was just wondering is that the shift you plan on making with your oud oils, in the more Rolls Royce and Bentley arena? Do you still plan on offering decent oils in the future for around the $550 range or is that a thing of the past? Do you plan on producing any more of the organics?
Hi Edward,
I just read that apparently buying anything from me is a sure rip-off and that my recent prices are a joke.
Well...
I currently have nine oils listed. SIX of these are below $300.
Then you've got a five year-old Meghalayan... an eight year-old Hainan for $550 each – a price that's been the norm for my vintage LTDs for five years now. According to the laws of inflation alone, this figure should have moved up a bit since 2007
Oud Yunus is far more than just a 'decent oil' if you ask anybody who's tried it. And so was Oud Isa, and Oud Ishaq. All recent releases. All $550 each.
It's not that I'm making a shift with my oils. Rather, it's the opportunity to keep producing this calibre oud which has shifted dramatically. This is a reality I cannot ignore if I have any hope to continue distilling such oils, so certain Ouds will be priced higher than what we're used to.
I caught some flack for the price increase of Kalbar 3000, about which I tried to convey something in my last blog post. Suffice to say that I wasn't exactly all smiles to find that every time I return to the Far East I see the prices for raw materials have gone up yet again, and that the crookery is only getting worse... Masstika's recent experience just goes to show this again.
So, in a nutshell, I do plan to continue offering – not only 'decent' – premium vintage oils for around $550, just like I'm currently doing. And I hope to march on with future organic distillations as well. I just hope that $250 isn't turning this scene into too much of a circus
I just read that apparently buying anything from me is a sure rip-off and that my recent prices are a joke.
Well...
I currently have nine oils listed. SIX of these are below $300.
Then you've got a five year-old Meghalayan... an eight year-old Hainan for $550 each – a price that's been the norm for my vintage LTDs for five years now. According to the laws of inflation alone, this figure should have moved up a bit since 2007
Oud Yunus is far more than just a 'decent oil' if you ask anybody who's tried it. And so was Oud Isa, and Oud Ishaq. All recent releases. All $550 each.
It's not that I'm making a shift with my oils. Rather, it's the opportunity to keep producing this calibre oud which has shifted dramatically. This is a reality I cannot ignore if I have any hope to continue distilling such oils, so certain Ouds will be priced higher than what we're used to.
I caught some flack for the price increase of Kalbar 3000, about which I tried to convey something in my last blog post. Suffice to say that I wasn't exactly all smiles to find that every time I return to the Far East I see the prices for raw materials have gone up yet again, and that the crookery is only getting worse... Masstika's recent experience just goes to show this again.
So, in a nutshell, I do plan to continue offering – not only 'decent' – premium vintage oils for around $550, just like I'm currently doing. And I hope to march on with future organic distillations as well. I just hope that $250 isn't turning this scene into too much of a circus
F
I think the guy writing that is a joke to be honest. These Ouds are not cheap and a lot of criticism of the price stems from envy and the inability to purchase at that price... It is akin to someone going to an antique Persian rug dealer and accusing him of ripping people off because his prices are not competitive when compared to the likes of Ikea!
I find it ironic that no one criticises people who resell your unavailable Ouds at very high prices a few years later... The Oud Sultani is on a par with the Oud Royale No. 1 and I don't see many people selling that for $2000 a bottle!
I find it ironic that no one criticises people who resell your unavailable Ouds at very high prices a few years later... The Oud Sultani is on a par with the Oud Royale No. 1 and I don't see many people selling that for $2000 a bottle!
People who complain about the prices are not just not in touch with the current state of agarwood. It is not possible to distill oils of this quality under present-time circumstances, and until artisanal organic distillation really takes off (which takes time, as we know), we won't be seeing oils of this quality at all. I think people just do not appreciate how hard it is to find sinking-grade wood, and how much it costs to distill oil from such quality wood.
You all have valid points. It is your company Ensar and you are allowed to what ever you want. It is true that the cost of agarwood is increasing dramatically, the cost of travel to find the woods, then the cost of distillation and shipping has increased. I was not attacking your company I was approaching the question from the angle of someone who wears Oud on an almost daily basis and watching the prices potentally inflate to the point of unwearability to were they are no longer wearable but just sit in a bottle as an investment. That was the original draw for me wearing it in the first place, wearing something exotic and classy that others did not have because of the rarity, but at the same the same time it being in a price range were I could "bless" those around me with such an exotic fragrance (they might not have agreed with me on the Hindi's however). We all knew it was going to come to this point anyhow and it's difficult as a consumer to find the line between cost increase from marketing from hyped up demand or increase in lower resource availablity. I have had to stop dealing with several wood vendors over the past year because you start off well, they gain your trust an then you get ripped off. There are many woods that I cannot buy due to price increase from collecting as an investment that I would have been able to purchase as well a year or two ago. I could not find the response on the other website regarding the "rip off and pricings as a joke" but I remember seeing it. I could see issues arising from people that endorsed and purchased your products througout the years supporting your company maybe feeling pushed aside by the current pricing and the subsequebt inability to purchase the higher priced oils. I don't know why they delete negative comments as we should allow others to write their opinions and ideas. That is what these websites are for in my opinion, to have a safe place to read others opinions, whether they are right or wrong and allow others to either grow in the process. I know I don't always have it right (most of time I do not) and often get shown other perspectives that I was not aware of when I might make what others consider an attacking or stupid comment.
F
Edward, you make some good points, but I cannot understand why those who complain cannot simply buy the Organic offerings which are VERY reasonably priced and the likes of Oud Yusuf is a steal at that price given that other vendors are selling Ouds at similar prices which don't come close in terms of quality. The price of crude oil has gone up and in the UK we currently pay £1.40 a litre ($2.24) for petrol when it was only 75p a litre back in 2007... can you imagine petrol stations reducing their prices just so people can have cheap petrol when the economic fundamentals do not justify it?
Oud oil is even more scarce than crude oil, so it would be unfair to ask people like Ensar to offer his finest Oud at ridiculously low prices... he isn't running a charity after all! He sells the likes of Yusuf and Yusha at very keen prices and I do not think at that price point you will find better - I haven't and I have looked around extensively. So those people who simply cannot afford these prices should content themselves with superb oils from the organic collection, or simply go elsewhere and buy from other vendors as after all, Ensar isn't the only Oud seller around.
Oud oil is even more scarce than crude oil, so it would be unfair to ask people like Ensar to offer his finest Oud at ridiculously low prices... he isn't running a charity after all! He sells the likes of Yusuf and Yusha at very keen prices and I do not think at that price point you will find better - I haven't and I have looked around extensively. So those people who simply cannot afford these prices should content themselves with superb oils from the organic collection, or simply go elsewhere and buy from other vendors as after all, Ensar isn't the only Oud seller around.
Edward T, no one was addressing your comment. I felt your question was valid. People are referring to posts made on BaseNotes that were inflammatory, as usual. Sure, forums should allow free speech, but BN has become notorious for negative and inflammatory comments along these lines, particularly on the subject of Ensar's prices. So it is all a bit absurd and immature beyond a point. No one is forcing them to buy his oils!
Simply put, Oud oil is rare, precious, endangered, and it costs a lot! It's not for everyone. But as floraopia points out, the organic collection is quite affordable. For the price, those are the best Oud oils available right now. And many of them are very comparable to oils from the LTD collection, in my opinion.
Simply put, Oud oil is rare, precious, endangered, and it costs a lot! It's not for everyone. But as floraopia points out, the organic collection is quite affordable. For the price, those are the best Oud oils available right now. And many of them are very comparable to oils from the LTD collection, in my opinion.
I'm not sure what you're getting at, Ed. You bought Oud Mostafa for $550 a bottle and sold both of your bottles at a considerable mark-up within hours of posting them here. I'm still selling Oud Yunus, Oud Ebrahim, Oud Zachariyya – all older oils than Oud Mostafa, and from identical raw materials – at $550 a bottle. At the same time, you're the one making a profit on my $550 bottles of Oud Mostafa! – Who is the one increasing prices here, my friend?
The guy who made that statement used to PM me requesting free vials of Kyara Koutan, saying he was a student and could not afford to buy oud. When the free oud failed to arrive, he made it his business to badmouth my company and my person all over Basenotes.
The guy who made that statement used to PM me requesting free vials of Kyara Koutan, saying he was a student and could not afford to buy oud. When the free oud failed to arrive, he made it his business to badmouth my company and my person all over Basenotes.