GCMS results

[kesiro]

There has been a lot of speculation and controversy about purity of some oils. The KZ85 has been a hot potato for a while. I have never tried this oil but it certainly has a following.
There have been claims by some the oil is pure and others that it may not be. So recently, the GCMS result for this oil was posted on Basenotes.
http://www.basenotes.net/threads/445669-KZ85-THe-GCMS-results

The comments from the tester state "The sample did contain some authentic agarwood essential oil but the sample was also cut with a significant amount of non-volatile material as evidenced by the low TIC number, the unusual late eluting components and the combination with phthalates."

So, unless my reading comprehension is going bad, it appears the questions about it being a pure oud seem to be valid?

 

[Ensar Oud]

There has been a lot of speculation and controversy about purity of some oils. The KZ85 has been a hot potato for a while. I have never tried this oil but it certainly has a following.
There have been claims by some the oil is pure and others that it may not be. So recently, the GCMS result for this oil was posted on Basenotes.
http://www.basenotes.net/threads/445669-KZ85-THe-GCMS-results

The comments from the tester state "The sample did contain some authentic agarwood essential oil but the sample was also cut with a significant amount of non-volatile material as evidenced by the low TIC number, the unusual late eluting components and the combination with phthalates."

So, unless my reading comprehension is going bad, it appears the questions about it being a pure oud seem to be valid?

Here's to having a good opinion: Maybe oud, when solvent extracted, undergoeth such chemical reactions as doth labdanum when chemically extracted, and they therefore share what could be argued to be the "copper and steel" (auxiliary notes) of absolute production? Which might also explain the additional compounds that were detected.

At the end of the day, what we smell, and how that interacts with our psyche, is what counts; not what's on a piece of paper. Labdanum is in the nose of the beholder!

 

[kesiro]

Here's to having a good opinion: Maybe oud, when solvent extracted, undergoeth such chemical reactions as doth labdanum when chemically extracted, and they therefore share what could be argued to be the "copper and steel" (auxiliary notes) of absolute production? Which might also explain the additional compounds that were detected.

At the end of the day, what we smell, and how that interacts with our psyche, is what counts; not what's on a piece of paper. Labdanum is in the nose of the beholder.

No doubt. Who knows what chemistry occurs with chemical extraction.

 

[Tuff]

I find it very amusing that the original poster on basenotes just concludes 'It must be a solvent extraction, that explains the impurities, so hey no biggie'. So let's take a little history lesson here. In the history of essential oils, solvent extractions didn't exist in 1985 for the common man. They were perfected during the 2000's by the cannabis industry. If they existed in 1985, it was for industrial use, like petroleum refining or other expensive, hard to find extracts. These had to be done with multi million dollar rigs, similar to the picture Kruger shared recently of our Taiwan master's rig, which easily will set you back a few million. If you steam distill cannabis, it will just be a perfume, it won't do anything, the active ingredients have a boiling point near 400f. Only way to get a steam distill up to 400f is to have a rig like our Taiwan friend. Good Luck. Hence, your options for cannabis are pure alcohol/ethanol reflux, which will give you the most foul smelling chlorophyll - ish oil ever, which also must be carefully watched to prevent burning the active ingredients, or using a hexane/butane/C02 extraction with an ethanol wash at the end to winterize it. The solvents work by dissolving carbons in a chemical reaction. There is no teasing out some terpenes with steam or water here. Nobody in their right mind can claim a solvent product and a steam distillation result in similar end products.
For example, read the reviews of the C02 Agarwood extraction from Eden Botanicals, and none will mention what a beautiful smelling perfume it is. They all mention it has a very woody character, and is captivating, probably is a great fixer for your neroli oil, but is not a delicate perfume. Just as no one in their right mind would claim cannabis wax or concentrates have all the anti cancer agents of the original plant. Sure they can isolate CBD or THC, which are quite powerful on their own, but it's not the same thing. If you want the full monty, you will need a tincture, in all it's chlorophyll - ish glory. You can tincture Agarwood as well, which would retain it's health benefits, but won't smell so great. So yeah, good luck with your solvent extraction from 1985 that didn't exist then. And I look forward to the explanations how bathing Agarwood in butane, then an ethanol wash afterwards, is good for terpene or sesquiterpene extraction, which is what we are after in a perfume. As Ensar said however, if you like it, that's what counts.

 

[Oudamberlove]

I had the opportunity to blind guess KZ85 before any word of it's authenticity surfaced in the forums.

A while back, I purchased a couple bottles of oud from Jasin of Alaska. With it, he included two sample vials labeled A and B. I guessed that A was Malaysian, and that B was a Mukhallat with Styrax Benzoin. It was revealed to me that these were two of Jasin's revered oils.....Oud Sultani and KZ85. I later compared the scent of KZ85 to a fragrant Agarwood chip that I had, and found some similarity. It was super linear, and at that time I valued how my oils would dance for me, so I passed the sample on for someone else to experience.

Speaking of samples......I finally got to try Oud Royale no1!
A mellow Filaria, with the jungle tuned down, the oudiness tuned up, and the resinous-chips-depth factored way up.......the likes of Oud Sultani, Kannan Koh, and OR85.

Update:
Swiped Oud Sultani 1990 and TW95 to juxtapose OR1.
OS90 is a little like OR1 with the jungle retained and an added antique book vibe.
TW95 is a little like OR1's Malaysian cousin that boasts a more vaporous strength, while still retaining the resinous depth.

Okay,........My Thanksgiving is now BeOudiful

 

[Rasoul S]

I had the opportunity to blind guess KZ85 before any word of it's authenticity surfaced in the forums.

A while back, I purchased a couple bottles of oud from Jasin of Alaska. With it, he included two sample vials labeled A and B. I guessed that A was Malaysian, and that B was a Mukhallat with Styrax Benzoin. It was revealed to me that these were two of Jasin's revered oils.....Oud Sultani and KZ85. I later compared the scent of KZ85 to a fragrant Agarwood chip that I had, and found some similarity. It was super linear, and at that time I valued how my oils would dance for me, so I passed the sample on for someone else to experience.

Speaking of samples......I finally got to try Oud Royale no1!
A mellow Filaria, with the jungle tuned down, the oudiness tuned up, and the resinous-chips-depth factored way up.......the likes of Oud Sultani, Kannan Koh, and OR85.

Update:
Swiped Oud Sultani 1990 and TW95 to juxtapose OR1.
OS90 is a little like OR1 with the jungle retained and an added antique book vibe.
TW95 is a little like OR1's Malaysian cousin that boasts a more vaporous strength, while still retaining the resinous depth.

Okay,........My Thanksgiving is now BeOudiful

100% agree with notes on Sultani 1990 and tw95. Bang on. Mirror of my own. I look forward to try kz85 in a week or two.

 

[Tuff]

Here at the Ensar Collective, we use only the finest ingredients in our Waxes and Shatters. For our Koh Kong Shatter, we used only the finest woods available, at the peak of their resin formation. We will always only use the finest woods, that is our personal promise to you. Don't settle for that shatter made from leaf trimmings. We have the finest dab rigs to help you enjoy your shatter to it's fullest potential, to enjoy all the flavor. Or try one of our proprietary vape pens, fully loaded and ready to go whenever you need that extra incense hit on the road. Guaranteed to give you that couch lock for 8 hours straight or your money back! This shatter is 99% pure, and requires you to have an Oud recommendation from your doctor. We even have our very own Dr. Adam on site to give you a consultation by skype to get you verified and on your way with no delay!

P.S. Now accepting applications for Oud Tenders, must have at least two years experience with swiping.

 

[Rasoul S]

Here at the Ensar Collective, we use only the finest ingredients in our Waxes and Shatters. For our Koh Kong Shatter, we used only the finest woods available, at the peak of their resin formation. We will always only use the finest woods, that is our personal promise to you. Don't settle for that shatter made from leaf trimmings. We have the finest dab rigs to help you enjoy your shatter to it's fullest potential, to enjoy all the flavor. Or try one of our proprietary vape pens, fully loaded and ready to go whenever you need that extra incense hit on the road. Guaranteed to give you that couch lock for 8 hours straight or your money back! This shatter is 99% pure, and requires you to have an Oud recommendation from your doctor. We even have our very own Dr. Adam on site to give you a consultation by skype to get you verified and on your way with no delay!

P.S. Now accepting applications for Oud Tenders, must have at least two years experience with swiping.

Lol. Humbolt county branch opening soon. Can also see this on an episode of portlandia

 

[RobertOne]

Lol. Humbolt county branch opening soon. Can also see this on an episode of portlandia

Brownie points for the portlandia reference, but no, his latest sciartwork is actually all about me.

I move to the exurbs of Amsterdam so lo and behold... he created a block of heavenly plant based resinated joy giving material.

Kesiro may have his kinam but I will this of it as "Bobbies Block"

 

[Dorje]

And I look forward to the explanations how bathing Agarwood in butane, then an ethanol wash afterwards, is good for terpene or sesquiterpene extraction, which is what we are after in a perfume.

Have you tried it? I don't think you need to do an ethanol wash after but I'd guess a butane extraction would preserve terpenes, and the overall character of the agarwood, extremely well while getting rid of the wood fibers. I'd also guess yield would be prohibitively low, but quality would be extremely high.

 

[Tuff]

Have you tried it? I don't think you need to do an ethanol wash after but I'd guess a butane extraction would preserve terpenes, and the overall character of the agarwood, extremely well while getting rid of the wood fibers. I'd also guess yield would be prohibitively low, but quality would be extremely high.

I never tried Ensar's resin, but I got a kick out of him executing the idea after me mocking it, and I am sure his blows Eden Botanicals out of the water. I did however try to troll him pretty hard as a response. I hope someone out there enjoyed the resin, Rasoul is the only one I know of that mentions actually using it, but no reviews. I don't burn the wood, I have enough interest accruing as it is

 

[Rasoul S]

I never tried Ensar's resin, but I got a kick out of him executing the idea after me mocking it, and I am sure his blows Eden Botanicals out of the water. I did however try to troll him pretty hard as a response. I hope someone out there enjoyed the resin, Rasoul is the only one I know of that mentions actually using it, but no reviews. I don't burn the wood, I have enough interest accruing as it is

So regarding the resin. I have tried heating the resin in multiple attempts with varying temps and I have concluded that it’s use this way is not for me. However putting a tiny bit of the resin over a chunk of lower grade agarwood does add a bit more oomph to the experience.

The best use is I think will be in perfumery. Instead of labdanum. I see the two being interchangeable. My hunch. Not evidential yet. I have some in alcohol and some shaved (after being in the fridge the resin can actually be grated with Parmesan shaver into sand size dust) in sandal and also in a bit of aa koh kood and Yusuf. Like 0.1 or less in 0.3 of oil.

Stay tuned in.

 

[Rasoul S]

Regarding kz85 oil
Finally I got a bitvdirectly sent to me via the most generous and kind WS of kyarazen.

I have to say I saw it as a labdanum and rose oil. I can’t in any shape or form see oud origin in it. Don’t get me wrong I am not challenging the results but merely going off my nose alone. I should be reminded that oils like oud Ahmad or tigereood Royale too are rather atypical oud. But kz85 is just even more unique.

The scent is not for me. Is very well labdanum and rose oil but old and antiquey. Wonderful to experience yet another side of oud.

 

[Rasoul S]

@Ensar @Kruger
hi gents. will the resin eventually get fully macerated in sandal or oud? or i then need to use a solubilizer or perfumer alcohol to get is dissolved? i ask b/c of few shakes a day and shaving the resin into the sandal and oud has pretty much stayed the same since day one. i am only a week into the maceration though...

 

[PEARL]

Regarding kz85 oil
Finally I got a bitvdirectly sent to me via the most generous and kind WS of kyarazen.

I have to say I saw it as a labdanum and rose oil. I can’t in any shape or form see oud origin in it. Don’t get me wrong I am not challenging the results but merely going off my nose alone. I should be reminded that oils like oud Ahmad or tigereood Royale too are rather atypical oud. But kz85 is just even more unique.

The scent is not for me. Is very well labdanum and rose oil but old and antiquey. Wonderful to experience yet another side of oud.

@Rasoul S I got a bit of KZ85 a good while ago from the source. It is indeed unique and something I'd say the majority of oud oil users have never encountered. I am merely going off my nose. I got some labdanum absolute from Eden Botanicals and I don't believe KZ85 to be that or contain it. However, it does smell remarkably close to labdanum. Once I got to sample Imperial Oud's Sinensis extract I came to believe KZ85 to be an extract of agarwood as well. They share the same incense/resinous core and tactile feel, the difference being that each has somewhat muted notes similar to those seen in agarwood oils from their perspective regions; Sinensis being Chinese and KZ85 being either Cambodian or Vietnamese IMO. Excepting for the muted regional difference, Sinensis and KZ85 behave so much alike that I remarked, back when I was on ouddict forum, that I didn't know how anyone who had experienced both didn't make the connection. With that said, IMO agarwood extracts are better for providing a grounding element for oils/mukhallats or medicinally rather than to be worn neat as a personal scent.

 

[Ensar Oud]

@Ensar @Kruger
hi gents. will the resin eventually get fully macerated in sandal or oud? or i then need to use a solubilizer or perfumer alcohol to get is dissolved? i ask b/c of few shakes a day and shaving the resin into the sandal and oud has pretty much stayed the same since day one. i am only a week into the maceration though...

You’ll definitely need to macerate it in ethanol. I believe I mention this in the write-up.

 

[Oudamberlove]

You’ll definitely need to macerate it in ethanol. I believe I mention this in the write-up.

@Rasoul
If you want the resin to reside in the oil, just use as little ethanol as possible to liquify the resin, then mix it into the oil, then put it in a container with plenty of air space, then open the container often for months to allow most of the ethanol to dissipate. The hitch is the introduction of oxygen to the oil, and the effect that the ethanol may have also

 

[Rasoul S]

You’ll definitely need to macerate it in ethanol. I believe I mention this in the write-up.

noted. do you have any input @Ensar in regards to using ethanol (perfumers alcohol or otherwise pure grain alcohol at 95%) vs. polysorbate 20 solubilizer?

 

[Rasoul S]

@Rasoul S I got a bit of KZ85 a good while ago from the source. It is indeed unique and something I'd say the majority of oud oil users have never encountered. I am merely going off my nose. I got some labdanum absolute from Eden Botanicals and I don't believe KZ85 to be that or contain it. However, it does smell remarkably close to labdanum. Once I got to sample Imperial Oud's Sinensis extract I came to believe KZ85 to be an extract of agarwood as well. They share the same incense/resinous core and tactile feel, the difference being that each has somewhat muted notes similar to those seen in agarwood oils from their perspective regions; Sinensis being Chinese and KZ85 being either Cambodian or Vietnamese IMO. Excepting for the muted regional difference, Sinensis and KZ85 behave so much alike that I remarked, back when I was on ouddict forum, that I didn't know how anyone who had experienced both didn't make the connection. With that said, IMO agarwood extracts are better for providing a grounding element for oils/mukhallats or medicinally rather than to be worn neat as a personal scent.

well labdanum once oxidizes smells to my nose at least markedly different than fresh. also producer to producer i see more variations with labdanum than let's say eucalyptus or mint or lavender.
i have to fully agree with you in regards to drawing similarities with IO sinesis extract. i have some of that too and while aroamtic profile is different and so is the age of the two extracts, but the core of it is the same. and you are bang on the tactile sensation of it. i think on basenotes the more advanced user(s) came to same conclusion too that the kz85 was an extract not a distillate of agarwood.

anyways i just wanted to share my 2 cents with folks and send the following two messages along
1) oud is such a beautiful and complex gift from nature that it can really behold a universe of scents with in it and we shouldnt be too quick to judge
2) that if ensar or any other advanced pro nose before the results had doubts about this oil not being oud, their hunch wasnt a bad guess at all. kz85 as oud is really quite far-fetched. i mean the nose the texture the way it evolves or lack of, the dry down, is all anything but oud. b/c we come to know oud as a product of hydro or steam distillation and not extract. but if extracts can be as beautiful as the one IO did or this one maybe distillers can give a bit more time to explore makign extracts of oud in 2018 and beyond. dont get me wrong i still prefer oud that is hydro distilled but nothing wrong with having more variety.

 

[Rasoul S]

@Rasoul
If you want the resin to reside in the oil, just use as little ethanol as possible to liquify the resin, then mix it into the oil, then put it in a container with plenty of air space, then open the container often for months to allow most of the ethanol to dissipate. The hitch is the introduction of oxygen to the oil, and the effect that the ethanol may have also

worth experimenting on in a tiny 0.3ml sample vial. why not... worse case scenario i use it to scent linens and the house