Let Oleoresin Talk (LOT) Project

Nikhil S

Well-Known Member
@PEARL Dear sir. I ve decided to look beyond all thats happening. Cause my brain is drained. Its sort of unbelievable to see such things happen in the Oud community. Its getting rather embarrassing now. I am not a diplomat but an absolute believer of peace and love. I can clearly sense something is not right between a group of people including vendors I respect. I cant stop them from wordraping each other but to guys like me see all this is extremely painful. I request you all to please maintain a decorum. Wear what u like buy what u like. Your choice but please dont bring your personal quarrels to us like this. Someone has to act mature here. What are the seniors doing ? Please stop all of you. Thank you very much. The community is bleeding. Repair it and stop hating each other. This is pure garbage in my straight words. And its stinking.
 

kesiro

Well-Known Member
Ok, so now it seems all that people needed to say has been said and we can finally put an end to this.

PS: it appears that our friend ouddict has either banned my IP address or closed his forum.
 

Oudamberlove

Well-Known Member
Pardon me @kesiro, just one more thing....

I spent a good amount of time and effort contributing to Ouddict.com, I even preferred the busy-ness of that forum. It’s busier; busier with many good natured people who share. It is also exponentially busier with bitterness, hatred, duplicity and dubious behavior that I witnessed and called out. If anybody wonders the reason for my banning, it was due to challenging that same dubious status quo with common sense, all of the issues I pointed out still remain unanswered but rather brushed over with distraction. The same thing has happened once again and as per usual has devolved into barbaric savagery from a few on Ouddict. I pointed out that a vendor blindsided out of nowhere another vendor, saying that his words were bastardized when in effect he uses similar words in the same context. A matter still unanswered and the discourse following the usual pattern of being an attack on Ensar. The other forum is not bad just a few spoiled apples that spoil the bunch, I’ll directly address those.

Jawed of Al Shareef Oudh, I love useful, true and technical discourse but much about distillation and oud in general is obviously not fact as each man sorts his chip accordingly to his wishes; we have to respect different ways in which the other does so. The primary purpose of much of your so called discourse is aimed directly at “correcting” other vendors, anybody with intellect knows exactly why you do so, you fail to stand on your own. You find every way to badmouth other vendors in the name of objectivity and there only being one way, your way. You seek to separate yourself from the other online vendors while at the same time mimicking their style and delivery. You have very little to offer except innuendo and subliminally bashing other vendors in the guise of your so called technical discourse. From Oud vs Oudh, where you claimed your superiority over vendors that use Oud, based on Arabian heritage about the use of your Indian transliteration Oudh, and likened yourself to prominent historical Arabic figures and them to Tom Ford. To your use of the results of one research paper to show Chinese oils don’t have barny notes when you saw that people were discussing another vendors Chinese oils that do have barny notes, very easy to see the direction of flight you prepared for that arrow. To your talk of the usage of the term oleoresin where you basically called another vendor an ignorant bastard, where I showed you that you indeed use similar terms in the same context, etc, ad nauseum. In every instance you were joyously and emphatically wrong. I understand tradition and you follow a such a strict one that will only allow you to keep producing the same resin-less oud oil products; that is until your cohorts applaud you for finding a way to do so. There is arrogance and pomposity in your heart. You attack using religious scripture and Hadith all the while there were times you and myself were engaged in heated debate and understanding our Ummah I greeted you with salaams despite our entanglement, and your ultra ego would not allow you to return them. You act with a sense of deserving entitlement for authority as if you earned it by actually doing something rather than standing in the shadows of your forefathers; you lack humility. Step outside of the shadow and be your own man. One of your favorite mantras is, “Let the customer decide”. Yet, when your Ceen was compared to Fragrant Harbor you didn’t merely say you disagreed with the customers assessment which would have been fine. Instead you laid out detailed discourse of the precise method that the customer MUST use in order to make his decision, then at the end had the condescending audacity to say that you yourself don’t even use that method. Did you let the customer decide or did you decide for him? I applauded Imperial Oud for truly letting the customer decide whereas you acted as if threatened and attempted to dictate terms. The sad thing is I could go on and on about your self-righteous, duplicitous, seemingly jealous hearted behavior and you and your merry men would fail to see the forest for the trees.

To the guy with the beard, the one who I detected his Algerian descent by his usage of Arabic, he who in a spirit of deserving request free bottles of oud, the new and up and coming oud distiller/vendor, you F4R1d0uX. You started alright before following and becoming infected by a bacteria worse than MRSA, VRSA and VRE combined. Can you please tell me how it all goes down, how does it happen? How do you in the course of doing your business whether by phone or visiting distillers in far off lands, miraculously and magically begin to engage in conversation about Ensar that results in mockery and the sharing of saved screenshots about him from only Allah knows when and where? Do you bring him up, do they bring him up, what? Are you guys standing around the pot then begin to gaze into the twinkle of each others eyes and say in unison, ENSAR! I mean, that is how you got the screenshots isn’t it? Focusing on Ensar instead of handling you business. You guys like to project yourselves onto others and think since you’re focusing and revolving around Ensar and what he does that everybody else does the same thing. Ensar, like lemonade, is a popular drink and he still is. Even if you try to talk your way out of your actions, they’ll only end up focusing back on Ensar. Gee whiz man, do you, focus on what you’ll bring to market, make yourself your only competition.

*****Mandeel AlMandeel, the man I call my play cousin, my words are sincere and from the heart as that’s the way I speak. I like and respect you Mandeel. When I look at your picture and listen to your words even when we have passionately disagreed, I know you too are speaking solely from your heart, not a gang mentality. Your thoughts, experience, beef, whatever, are yours not because of group think, that’s truly what I feel and I highly respect a man that stands on his own. There was a time you absolutely rubbished OM5 in relation to OM4 in discussion with me. Later you came to say that OM5 was one of your favorite oils, I may have the oils backwards but you get the message. That took courage considering, but no matter what, you’re friend with some of the people whose feelings just happen to align with some of yours. You Mandeel are your own man, I feel when you do whatever it is you do, you did it because YOU wanted to, without regard for what anybody thinks, I can get along with that; respect and honor play cousin. You are not among them.

peter4ptv, yours will be short, you’re a foolish, following imbecile who doesn’t know any better, simple.

Ouddict, you run a forum that as I said, I preferred. Busy in good but unfortunately exponentially busier in bad. The troops attitude is often a reflection of those at the helm. You’ve turned plenty of people off. You run what you incessantly report to be an open forum. Yet, you electronically discourage people and harass members when they don’t follow you and begin to challenge your agenda or iniquity. You operate in back channels where you approach members and warn them not to say certain things or risk getting banned; you’ve done it to me and it can be witnessed on your board of others who you’ve done it to, one of which is respected Ammar; who departed for a while due to your dubious shenanigans. You operate an open forum where your henchmen have approached and warned @Nikhil S simply for liking a post. Be steadfast @Nikhil S you are not alone, there is a band of members that have felt the same discord and wrath, we are with you. Is it really open? Or is it only open to your self serving agenda? You operate a forum that when issues come up and dubious behavior is shown to you, you suddenly have to catch a flight and promise to deal with issues that you never do. You operate a forum where you come as a wolf in sheeps clothing, you play the helpless innocent victim and accuse others of being back stabbers, yet you stockpile daggers and other weapons in the form of screenshots and evidence to be used as ammunition intended to hurt others in your bloodletting and thirst for power and control. At present you are building a weapon of mass destruction that’s going to take you two weeks to assemble!!!! Are those the actions of an innocent man? Or are they the actions of a felonious, war mongering charlatan. You operate a forum where you feign to cower at someone calling you a thief. If a man has a debt that’s owed to him by another and gets the run around by that other as if he’ll never get what’s owed, what is that man to think? The debt becomes in effect stolen property until it is returned to it’s rightful owner and the one who owes becomes in effect a thief. Don’t you understand that? All of you answers to anything is the same dreck we've had to endure from the inception of Ouddict.

There is so much more that I’ve witnessed as a well regarded member and now; I’m am not a vendor and don't want to be, nor do I give any partiality to any particular vendor despite being partial to particular vendors product. That’s a concept and action the feeble minded can’t separate.

But what will they do with it? There will likely be rebuttal. Will they mock my PEARL of wisdom, say it’s too long, fake not being able to understand when they know exactly what I’m talking about? Or will they actually address the fullness of the content without reducing and answering it in soundbites that continue to forward their agenda.
Dang it Pearl, it's like you can read my mind and put it into words. Hats off to you Bro!

Spot on with Mandeel, I love him, he is original, not a follower, speaks his mind, and gives us a different perspective coming from his culture. He is kind and generous too.

I however, am the epitomy of tolerance and forebearance.
 
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Alkhadra

Guest
Ok, so now it seems all that people needed to say has been said and we can finally put an end to this.

PS: it appears that our friend ouddict has either banned my IP address or closed his forum.
I don't think your IP address was banned, I've had some connection problems with Ouddict over the past couple weeks. Usually I just leave it and get back to it later and it works A-okay.

"Senkoh" is a word I learned from David Oller (Baieido's US representative) way back in the day. I used to have these phone conversations with him where he'd explain how they identified kinam, the molecular structure vs normal agarwood, the definitions of "jinkoh" and "senkoh" etc. According to Dave, "senkoh" is one level up from regular "jinkoh" which means highly resinous wood. Senkoh is wood of the highest caliber.

In my interpretation of the word, what I'm trying to say when naming an oil "Senkoh" is that it possesses the following characteristics:

1 - A true-to-life representation of the scent of the resin found in the wood the oil was extracted from – if not a direct transmutation of that resin into the oil itself, as in the case of Chugoku and Assamugo Senkoh.

2 - Addictiveness above and beyond normal agarwood oil; a quality that makes you crave more and more of the scent, repeat swipes and incessant inhalations of the spot it was swiped on.

If an oil possesses both characteristics, it qualifies for inclusion in the "Senkoh Series". Senkoh oils cannot smell different to the scent of the raw resin on a kyara heater (high heat not an option), though that is not the only prerequisite. The oil must be positively addictive to me personally and be an oil I find myself swiping obsessively. If that "obsession" element is lacking, it won't get the "Senkoh" moniker.

Art is seeing things through the eyes of the artist, and not as they exist in nature.
Informative post on your nomenclature.

I'm assuming that Assamugo Senkoh gets its name from Assam, and Suriranka Senkoh from Sri Lanka. How about Chugoku Senkoh? A quick google search shows that Chugoku means "middle country". Did you name it that due to the wood being harvested near the border between China and India? If so... bravo!
 

PEARL

Well-Known Member
PS: it appears that our friend ouddict has either banned my IP address or closed his forum.
@kesiro when I was banned I found out when trying to log in and it said my IP had been banned. I don’t know the functionality but in my case there was an error message that said so. I just tried and it seems to be working, only now you have to log in and there’s a message that says please register to view forum.
 

Oudamberlove

Well-Known Member
@kesiro when I was banned I found out when trying to log in and it said my IP had been banned. I don’t know the functionality but in my case there was an error message that said so. I just tried and it seems to be working, only now you have to log in and there’s a message that says please register to view forum.
It seems to be a members only forum for now. I cannot access it unless I sign-in.
 
"Senkoh" is a word I learned from David Oller (Baieido's US representative) way back in the day. I used to have these phone conversations with him where he'd explain how they identified kinam, the molecular structure vs normal agarwood, the definitions of "jinkoh" and "senkoh" etc. According to Dave, "senkoh" is one level up from regular "jinkoh" which means highly resinous wood. Senkoh is wood of the highest caliber.

In my interpretation of the word, what I'm trying to say when naming an oil "Senkoh" is that it possesses the following characteristics:

1 - A true-to-life representation of the scent of the resin found in the wood the oil was extracted from – if not a direct transmutation of that resin into the oil itself, as in the case of Chugoku and Assamugo Senkoh.

2 - Addictiveness above and beyond normal agarwood oil; a quality that makes you crave more and more of the scent, repeat swipes and incessant inhalations of the spot it was swiped on.

If an oil possesses both characteristics, it qualifies for inclusion in the "Senkoh Series". Senkoh oils cannot smell different to the scent of the raw resin on a kyara heater (high heat not an option), though that is not the only prerequisite. The oil must be positively addictive to me personally and be an oil I find myself swiping obsessively. If that "obsession" element is lacking, it won't get the "Senkoh" moniker.

Art is seeing things through the eyes of the artist, and not as they exist in nature.
Thanks for this explanation @Ensar. I agree that Suriranka Senkoh is highly addictive. I’ve been swiping small amounts everyday and sniffing the bottle. Such an incredible oil that is tola worthy or even more. Since it’s such a young oil, it is worth using it often so that one can enjoy what it has to offer. I have a backup bottle that I’m going to let sit. I’m not sure if that will ‘age’ it, but it would be interesting to see how the aroma develops after several years.

Did the wood have this same aroma, or is that a result of your distillation techniques?
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
Thanks for this explanation @Ensar. I agree that Suriranka Senkoh is highly addictive. I’ve been swiping small amounts everyday and sniffing the bottle. Such an incredible oil that is tola worthy or even more. Since it’s such a young oil, it is worth using it often so that one can enjoy what it has to offer. I have a backup bottle that I’m going to let sit. I’m not sure if that will ‘age’ it, but it would be interesting to see how the aroma develops after several years.

Did the wood have this same aroma, or is that a result of your distillation techniques?
Can't go to sleep without it.... I have a few backup tolas that I plan to keep. Smart move on the second bottle. The aroma is 100% what premium Walla smells like on low heat, no distillation tricks.
 
Can't go to sleep without it.... I have a few backup tolas that I plan to keep. Smart move on the second bottle. The aroma is 100% what premium Walla smells like on low heat, no distillation tricks.
I haven’t been able to function without it! Just today, I was in a meeting and I kept sniffing my finger in a runny nose type fashion, when a VP says, “there’s some tissue on the side over there if you need some.”

That is seriously amazing though. To think that something from nature can smell like this. Is Walla Patta wood going to be offered in the future?
 

kooolaid79

Well-Known Member
Can't go to sleep without it.... I have a few backup tolas that I plan to keep. Smart move on the second bottle. The aroma is 100% what premium Walla smells like on low heat, no distillation tricks.
A few tolas? Holy Moly!! I am always open to holding a few if the need ever be :) I think the Chugoko Senkoh is one to keep very close as well. That kind of Oudh is very hard to come by and each time I smell it, I don't think it can get any better than the first time because that was mind blowing but come to think of it, it is a mind blowing oil every time I sniff it!!
I dont enjoy the Walla aroma much. Its special though. But gotta get that Senkoh now anyhow :)
Hopefully one day I will be blessed to smell and appreciate the Suriranka Senkoh!! These Senkoh's are truly a gift from nature and a gift who brought it for us to connect ourselves with @Ensar!!
 

Nikhil S

Well-Known Member
A few tolas? Holy Moly!! I am always open to holding a few if the need ever be :) I think the Chugoko Senkoh is one to keep very close as well. That kind of Oudh is very hard to come by and each time I smell it, I don't think it can get any better than the first time because that was mind blowing but come to think of it, it is a mind blowing oil every time I sniff it!!

Hopefully one day I will be blessed to smell and appreciate the Suriranka Senkoh!! These Senkoh's are truly a gift from nature and a gift who brought it for us to connect ourselves with @Ensar!!
If it is Ensar bhai the oil shall speak for itself. Even his average oils like Dhul Q and Jing Shen Lu are nothing short of spectacular. Sri Lankan oils have been good nothing spectacular. Gyrinops doesnt seem like my thing but I am sure he has done a unique work on this. If it is something rare It has to come from his channel. His oils are class apart. Period.
 

PEARL

Well-Known Member
Senkoh this, 3rd & 4th generation that, x+y+z axis blah, blah, blah. Frankly I’m a bit perturbed by it and I’ll tell you why.

But first...The other day I did a review, my own. Went in front of the board for my annual. Granted one is effective, they can fully meet expectations, exceed them or one more class above the others, be commendable. When I looked down at the results of my review, it read exceeds expectations and my response was, "what is this?" How am I not commendable? I began to enumerate all that I had done from projects that I had initiated, research involvement, outside efforts, etc., I vied for the ranking of commendable but fell short. I asked why was I not commendable and was told that what I had done did indeed impact my unit and area of practice as a clinician. I was told that in the history of the hospital that only a very few had ever been rated as commendable. My question was why have a category that's nearly impossible to achieve? I was simply told that in order to be commendable one had to go beyond impacting just their area, they had to be game changers. Commendable game changers whose work positively effected the game for the entire hospital and how it operates.

Oils like Chugoku Senkoh, Lalitya, Suriranka Senkoh and Chamkeila are commendable game changers; I'm perturbed by them as they have impacted me and have changed the way I look and examine my entire collection and all other oils I tried before them. Oils including the pinnacle of the Meghalayans, Assam Kinam, oils like Aatma, Purana, Kambodi '76, etc. all venerable and brilliant oils in their own right. The game changers aren't necessarily better or worse but they do showcase an entirely different expression all the while shouting OUD. Term usage has been coined, abstract usage of ideas like the axises have been implemented, generational category nomenclature used, phrases such as "distillation with no tricks" and "the smell of high grade agarwood heated on low heat" have been said~all in attempt to show and describe the truly indescribable expression that's happening with the game changers. Most that I see discussing the game changers talk of them in the same light, noting a sure and certain uniqueness and difference that they just can't quite put their fingers on; a challenging bunch of oils the commendable game changers are. It doesn't really matter what else is talking as the commendable game changers speak for themselves.
 

Larry K.

Active Member
Senkoh this, 3rd & 4th generation that, x+y+z axis blah, blah, blah. Frankly I’m a bit perturbed by it and I’ll tell you why.

But first...The other day I did a review, my own. Went in front of the board for my annual. Granted one is effective, they can fully meet expectations, exceed them or one more class above the others, be commendable. When I looked down at the results of my review, it read exceeds expectations and my response was, "what is this?" How am I not commendable? I began to enumerate all that I had done from projects that I had initiated, research involvement, outside efforts, etc., I vied for the ranking of commendable but fell short. I asked why was I not commendable and was told that what I had done did indeed impact my unit and area of practice as a clinician. I was told that in the history of the hospital that only a very few had ever been rated as commendable. My question was why have a category that's nearly impossible to achieve? I was simply told that in order to be commendable one had to go beyond impacting just their area, they had to be game changers. Commendable game changers whose work positively effected the game for the entire hospital and how it operates.

Oils like Chugoku Senkoh, Lalitya, Suriranka Senkoh and Chamkeila are commendable game changers; I'm perturbed by them as they have impacted me and have changed the way I look and examine my entire collection and all other oils I tried before them. Oils including the pinnacle of the Meghalayans, Assam Kinam, oils like Aatma, Purana, Kambodi '76, etc. all venerable and brilliant oils in their own right. The game changers aren't necessarily better or worse but they do showcase an entirely different expression all the while shouting OUD. Term usage has been coined, abstract usage of ideas like the axises have been implemented, generational category nomenclature used, phrases such as "distillation with no tricks" and "the smell of high grade agarwood heated on low heat" have been said~all in attempt to show and describe the truly indescribable expression that's happening with the game changers. Most that I see discussing the game changers talk of them in the same light, noting a sure and certain uniqueness and difference that they just can't quite put their fingers on; a challenging bunch of oils the commendable game changers are. It doesn't really matter what else is talking as the commendable game changers speak for themselves.
Hey Pearl,
Yes the oils will speak for themselves. Unfortunately they can’t type. So I believe the effort with the Cartesian metaphors and other wonky constructions are attempts to parse meanings and build frameworks that might help each other find the notes, commonalities or differences that will add to our understanding and enjoyment. Very few people have the type of synesthesia where scents are delivered directly to language nuclei. The huge majority of us are aphasic in this regard-in the extreme! As this thread has unhappily demonstrated, the lack of concrete meanings often leads to misunderstandings and rivalries. I do think struggling for a common language is a good thing though, and I hope discussions will always be founded in the collegiality and quest for understanding that brings us to wonder about oud.
 

Oudamberlove

Well-Known Member
As for myself, I experienced a game-changer, or should I say, Ajmal killer.

Eversince I swiped Assam Organic Meghalaya, I can no longer enjoy my Ajmal oils as I once did.
Something in AOMeg restructured my whole Hindi sensing pallete. It was a big let-down because my nose has been trained for years already, so I questioned WHY did I not rise above this hurdle sooner.

So I did side-by-sides with AOMeg and every other Hindi in my collection, and AOMeg comes out the winner each and every time.

I do believe that my personal taste is what made AOMeg the champ "for me", however, I think it falls a tad short of being the Holy Grail of Hindi oils. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll ever find my Holy Grail Hindi, it would be a very daunting task for sure.