SOTD

5MeO

Well-Known Member
I would think it's to do with the soak. An example would be comparing Al Shareef Ceen and EO Hainan 2005, two oils that I once called unidentical twins. I really like both of these oils and can smell Ceen in H'05 and vice versa but they are really quite different to each other. I guess the reason for this is that the wood for Ceen had minimal soaking, resulting in a more delicate oil when compared to H'05, which likely had a longer soak and is also much older - I could be wrong though! But, I find that the sinensis mid to dry down of the older H'05 just trumps that of Ceen.
Interesting.. I'm not seeing any similarity between Ceen and Hainan 2005.. The wood used was likely very different - I don't think Ceen would smell like Hainan 2005 even with soak and aging..

I can't recall which oil it is, but I think it was Ceen that basically smells identical to "Fragrant Harbor" by Imperial Oud. Fragrant Harbor is a farm-raised agarwood distillation whereas ASO claims that Ceen was wild wood. Also, the extremely expensive Al Malek Al Ceeni by ASO ($1,850/2.5g) smells identical to me to "Sinensis" (which was ~$450/3g if I recall) by Imperial Oud - I have samples of both oils on hand and cannot tell the difference between them, and the scent is totally unique, unlike any other oil. ASO claims that they have been distilling Al Malek Al Ceeni since the 1990's for royalty - whereas Sinensis was a novel CO2 extract type oil that IO just made a couple years ago. Interesting isn't it, that both oils smell identical?
 

Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
With sinensis melodies fading away from yesterday, time to use the cross-fader and introduce a tribal backbeat from just over the border. Chuguko Senkoh (EO).
A perfect segue into tonight’s anticipated killer hindi set. The bright, tangy berry glaze that form the top notes evoke a memory of gazing into a frozen pond. Under that crisp frozen top layer, lies the deep soul-note of the oud al-Hind, still fluid underneath. If you hang around long enough in the afternoon sun, comforting vapours of that hindi foundation will start to escape through the thawing ice.(Again, well paired with a top-shelf, lemony Rwandan espresso)
I am going for a long walk after bambino wakes up and will follow suit but wearing chuguko on mustache area. I do really like this oil for its tweener character. Mildest hindi note with terrific Chinese/cambodi ones. Best part of the oil is that it doesn’t reveal all it has upon application and takes a long time to unravel its delicate nuances. Let’s see how I’ll perceive it today.
 

kesiro

Well-Known Member
Last night for our family restaurant night out, it was Maluku from Taha. I don’t know what to say about this oil. [superlative, superlative]. Makes me woozy. This one, like purple Kinam/kynam 1, kyara Ltd, is in the truly special occasion wear territory.
 
Interesting.. I'm not seeing any similarity between Ceen and Hainan 2005.. The wood used was likely very different - I don't think Ceen would smell like Hainan 2005 even with soak and aging..

I can't recall which oil it is, but I think it was Ceen that basically smells identical to "Fragrant Harbor" by Imperial Oud. Fragrant Harbor is a farm-raised agarwood distillation whereas ASO claims that Ceen was wild wood. Also, the extremely expensive Al Malek Al Ceeni by ASO ($1,850/2.5g) smells identical to me to "Sinensis" (which was ~$450/3g if I recall) by Imperial Oud - I have samples of both oils on hand and cannot tell the difference between them, and the scent is totally unique, unlike any other oil. ASO claims that they have been distilling Al Malek Al Ceeni since the 1990's for royalty - whereas Sinensis was a novel CO2 extract type oil that IO just made a couple years ago. Interesting isn't it, that both oils smell identical?
I definitely don’t see much similarity between Hainan 2005 and Ceen. World of difference! Ceen and fragrant harbor smell nearly identical to me, very unique and distinct. I personally don’t care for the smell of them, although they are psychoactive to me. I also agree with you about Sinensis and AMAC, although I just realized it since you mentioned it. I have samples of both and they are very similar for sure.
 

Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
Last night for our family restaurant night out, it was Maluku from Taha. I don’t know what to say about this oil. [superlative, superlative]. Makes me woozy. This one, like purple Kinam/kynam 1, kyara Ltd, is in the truly special occasion wear territory.
Any comparables in the aroma department or any other characteristics?
 

kesiro

Well-Known Member
Any comparables in the aroma department or any other characteristics?
Hmm. The Maluku is somewhat of a blend of the P1 and Royal Malinau. Has the zing of the P1 but also the immaculate sweet beauty of Royal Malinau. I will say it does have a distinctly more “oudy” note, but immaculately clean. It’s olfactory colors and yellow, pink, violet, blue, blue green.
 

saint458

Well-Known Member
Hmm. The Maluku is somewhat of a blend of the P1 and Royal Malinau. Has the zing but also the immaculate sweet beauty on the Royal Malinau. I will say it does have a distinctly more “oudy” note, but immaculately clean. It’s olfactory colors and yellow, pink, violet, blue, blue green.
Aouuhhhh No No ... don't you ... doc ... ah ...

(... got pain in the left chest ...)
 

PEARL

Well-Known Member
@Rasoul S IMO we see Philipina No 1 in much the same way. We both pick up on something comparable to a Malaysian's oudiness framework, while the picture itself is quite abstract with no known analogues in the scent memory or in other agarwood oils; causing assessment to flow more so in imagery rather than the typical adjectives we use in the online oud platform. @kesiro and I, two of the most celebrated and preeminent agarwood aficionados in the worldwide oud landscape, had continued dialogue into more concrete facets of P1. We both agreed that P1 is not a copper distill, that the wood employed was processed using a low heat generating, fine grind and with a low-to-midrange heat curve, pressurized, semi-full fraction distillation technique. Producing an oil with clarity and full body, with no bitter, smokey or phantom notes. I too have a small batch of dense Philippine wood by way of @kooolaid79, and the low heat note structure is as different to other agarwoods as kinam is different to other agarwoods. I recognize Philippine wood and Kinam as being agarwood, yet both have notes/qualities that I have yet to experience in other agarwood grades, regions or species.
I'm curious, are these animalic/orange peel smelling Chinese oils from this genre (China Sayang, Chinese Exclusive, Yunnan 0'3, Yunnan Exclusive, etc) soaked enough to develop barnyard characteristics? Or are the animalic qualities just the natural smell of the wood?
@5MeO IMO it can be a function of technique, wood or a combination of both. Concerning technique, extended pre-cook soaks can affect the scent profile of the resultant oils by way of fermentation, which results in the sour, cheesy, barn-y, indolic-like, etc. notes we see in some oils. The fermentation notes in House of Misk's Assam 2016 and Ensar's Zachariyya are different from the, IMO, native indolic/animalic notes in "non-barn" Hindi's like Taha's Shano Shokat, Mahabali and Chamkeila or the native sour notes in Ensar's Kinam Rouge. IMO the fermented notes in the former oils dissipate as the oils dry down, whereas the indolic/animalic/sour notes in the later oils extend throughout the evolution of the oil. IMO and experience with Chinese oils including oils like Ceen, China Sayang, Hainan 2005, and most other Chinese oils, it's about the wood. With an oil like Chinese Exclusive I believe it to be a balance of the wood and an extended hygienic pre-cook soak with minimal fermentation.

Anecdotally, some pieces I have from Adam's Laotian sinking grade wood display different sour, animalic and/or bitter notes. However, that does not mean that all sinking Laotian agarwoods have those notes. In fact, it does not mean that all of the chunks, chips and slithers in my batch will have those notes. Another thing I find of interest is Rikkoku Gomi, with its first set introduced sometime around the 15th Century in Japan. In it woods are classified as having five tastes which are sweet, bitter, sour, spicy, and salty. In Chinese literature going back to the Song Dynasty, there were seven tastes which are sweet, bitter, spicy, salty, astringent, sour and plain (KyaraZen, 2013). KyaraZen also points out that, "the Rikkoku isn't an exhaustive categorization system for all agarwoods in the world" (KyaraZen, 2013). It is possible for different trees in the same jungle to produce agarwood with different scent characteristics. In fact, chips with different scent profiles can be found in infected parts of the same tree. An oil as the amalgamation of notes in all of the wood used to distill it and then some. IMO it is the varied amounts and permutations of sweet, bitter, sour, salty, spicy, astringent, plain, and other notes not identified by Rikkoku, that produce indolic/animalic notes in some chips, batches, trees and not others; which extends to the resultant oils without regard to soak time.

KyaraZen. (May 6, 2013). Perspectives on the Rikkoku Gomi. Retrieved from https://www.kyarazen.com/perspectives-on-the-rikkoku-gomi/#
 
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JohnH

Moderator
Staff member
Interesting.. I'm not seeing any similarity between Ceen and Hainan 2005.. The wood used was likely very different - I don't think Ceen would smell like Hainan 2005 even with soak and aging..

I can't recall which oil it is, but I think it was Ceen that basically smells identical to "Fragrant Harbor" by Imperial Oud. Fragrant Harbor is a farm-raised agarwood distillation whereas ASO claims that Ceen was wild wood. Also, the extremely expensive Al Malek Al Ceeni by ASO ($1,850/2.5g) smells identical to me to "Sinensis" (which was ~$450/3g if I recall) by Imperial Oud - I have samples of both oils on hand and cannot tell the difference between them, and the scent is totally unique, unlike any other oil. ASO claims that they have been distilling Al Malek Al Ceeni since the 1990's for royalty - whereas Sinensis was a novel CO2 extract type oil that IO just made a couple years ago. Interesting isn't it, that both oils smell identical?
Ha, nobody agreed with me before when I said the Ceen/Hainan 2005 thing, it's definitely there for me though, my wife too!

I've also had the Ceen/Fragrant Harbour conversation before. Yes, there are obvious similarities in smell but identical, no, I have to disagree. To me they are two very different oils. I'm certainly no oud expert though, perhaps it just comes down to how different people smell things? Ceen for me is multi-faceted and FH is not so. Same goes for Al Malek Al Ceeni, which I'm grateful to have a sample of, and IO Sinensis, which I have a sample of that I'm also grateful for. There are similarities yes but identical, no. Again, IMHO two very different oils, as they should be given the difference in prices.

The similarities come from the fact they are all from Aquilaria sinensis. The same goes for some oils from
Aquilaria agallocha, of which I have a few of different quality and prices. They all have agallocha similarities but are at the same time all very different to each other.

Right, time to eat my dinner now :)
 

kesiro

Well-Known Member
Ensar Oud~Oud Mostafa No 5

Medicinal and multifarious flowery barn-y notes that encompass you with a fragrance that is robust yet as sweet and pretty as a rose bush. @kooolaid79 this is high grade, wild Koh Kong wood in oil form. Forget what @Ensar says about it being from cultivated wood, that's just some sort of cold, sadistic skullduggery.
I concur with you about the OM5. There is a tipical characteristic I can detect is pretty much every cultivated oil but I just don’t get it in the OM5. This is why I always said it blurs the lines between wild and farmed. It is just a killer oil. Period. Deeply satisfying. Definitely skewed more toward the barn side then cambodi.
 

kesiro

Well-Known Member
I am going pretty low budget today but not low enjoyment quotient. I love Malay oud but the good stuff is so precious, sometimes I just want a “fix” without getting into the big $ stuff. That’s where Malay Ensens comes in. No, it is not the most complex or mind bending stuff like the tigerwoods, for example, but it gets you close enough to enjoy.
 

Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
Ha, nobody agreed with me before when I said the Ceen/Hainan 2005 thing, it's definitely there for me though, my wife too!

I've also had the Ceen/Fragrant Harbour conversation before. Yes, there are obvious similarities in smell but identical, no, I have to disagree. To me they are two very different oils. I'm certainly no oud expert though, perhaps it just comes down to how different people smell things? Ceen for me is multi-faceted and FH is not so. Same goes for Al Malek Al Ceeni, which I'm grateful to have a sample of, and I have a sample of IO Sinensis, which I'm also grateful for. There are similarities yes but identical, no. Again, IMHO two very different oils, as they should be given the difference in prices.

The similarities come from the fact they are all from Aquilaria sinensis. The same goes for some oils from
Aquilaria agallocha, of which I have a few of different quality and prices. They all have agallocha similarities but are at the same time all very different to each other.

Right, time to eat my dinner now :)
i tried them side by side. my sample of ceen is not what it used to be but the hainan still very much is the same oil. i see slight resemblance now but off memory there used to be more resemblance.
both are very good oils at the least but hainan in this case shows superior raw material. the longevity is objectively superior and that kinamic edge in the hainan is 100% there and not in ceen. hainan is almsot too much for me to wear despite all this though and ceen is more wearable and enjoyable of a scent.
 

Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
scent of the day chugoku senkoh:
like nagaland rubbing shoulders with a gentle pursat and even gentler chinese. the quietness and soft open knit style is something i have only ever seen in one other oil: taha's lavanya. texturally both are sicky too. lavanya much more so. this is the mildest and most airy barn/medicinal note i have come across. is just lovely lovely stuff. any and all fans of hindi, chinese and dried red fruit, cherry molases laced tobacco need a bit of this oil in their stash. is a benchmark oil.
 
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Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
@Rasoul S IMO we see Philipina No 1 in much the same way. We both pick up on something comparable to a Malaysian's oudiness framework, while the picture itself is quite abstract with no known analogues in the scent memory or in other agarwood oils; causing assessment to flow more so in imagery rather than the typical adjectives we use in the online oud platform. @kesiro and I, two of the most celebrated and preeminent agarwood aficionados in the worldwide oud landscape, had continued dialogue into more concrete facets of P1. We both agreed that P1 is not a copper distill, that the wood employed was processed using a low heat generating, fine grind and with a low-to-midrange heat curve, pressurized, semi-full fraction distillation technique. Producing an oil with clarity and full body, with no bitter, smokey or phantom notes. I too have a small batch of dense Philippine wood by way of @kooolaid79, and the low heat note structure is as different to other agarwoods as kinam is different to other agarwoods. I recognize Philippine wood and Kinam as being agarwood, yet both have notes/qualities that I have yet to experience in other agarwood grades, regions or species.

@5MeO IMO it can be a function of technique, wood or a combination of both. Concerning technique, extended pre-cook soaks can affect the scent profile of the resultant oils by way of fermentation, which results in the sour, cheesy, barn-y, indolic-like, etc. notes we see in some oils. The fermentation notes in House of Misk's Assam 2016 and Ensar's Zachariyya are different from the, IMO, native indolic/animalic notes in "non-barn" Hindi's like Taha's Shano Shokat, Mahabali and Chamkeila or the native sour notes in Ensar's Kinam Rouge. IMO the fermented notes in the former oils dissipate as the oils dry down, whereas the indolic/animalic/sour notes in the later oils extend throughout the evolution of the oil. IMO and experience with Chinese oils including oils like Ceen, China Sayang, Hainan 2005, and most other Chinese oils, it's about the wood. With an oil like Chinese Exclusive I believe it to be a balance of the wood and an extended hygienic pre-cook soak with minimal fermentation.

Anecdotally, some pieces I have from Adam's Laotian sinking grade wood display different sour, animalic and/or bitter notes. However, that does not mean that all sinking Laotian agarwoods have those notes. In fact, it does not mean that all of the chunks, chips and slithers in my batch will have those notes. Another thing I find of interest is Rikkoku Gomi, with its first set introduced sometime around the 15th Century in Japan. In it woods are classified as having five tastes which are sweet, bitter, sour, spicy, and salty. In Chinese literature going back to the Song Dynasty, there were seven tastes which are sweet, bitter, spicy, salty, astringent, sour and plain (KyaraZen, 2013). KyaraZen also points out that, "the Rikkoku isn't an exhaustive categorization system for all agarwoods in the world" (KyaraZen, 2013). It is possible for different trees in the same jungle to produce agarwood with different scent characteristics. In fact, chips with different scent profiles can be found in infected parts of the same tree. An oil as the amalgamation of notes in all of the wood used to distill it and then some. IMO it is the varied amounts and permutations of sweet, bitter, sour, salty, spicy, astringent, plain, and other notes not identified by Rikkoku, that produce indolic/animalic notes in some chips, batches, trees and not others; which extends to the resultant oils without regard to soak time.

KyaraZen. (May 6, 2013). Perspectives on the Rikkoku Gomi. Retrieved from https://www.kyarazen.com/perspectives-on-the-rikkoku-gomi/#
pearl, nothing is said that i disagree with. in fact highlighted parts above really resonate with my experience.
i have another cummingiana piece (a very old petrified crayon like piece) via the most generous kyarazen. i dont know of the source yet and havent heard back from WS in that regards but the note of the wood is to me identical to that cummingiana piece procured via taha which made the oil. as for the vessel for distillation, i dont get the stainless steel notes in philipina like i do with wanmei. to my nose is all glass and i agree temp curve is higher cause i see longer finish and lasting power to this oil.
 

Simla House

Well-Known Member
I am going for a long walk after bambino wakes up and will follow suit but wearing chuguko on mustache area. I do really like this oil for its tweener character. Mildest hindi note with terrific Chinese/cambodi ones. Best part of the oil is that it doesn’t reveal all it has upon application and takes a long time to unravel its delicate nuances. Let’s see how I’ll perceive it today.
Was a beautiful day for a walk and to take in the CS. Lucky man.
 

Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
Green Papua Monday.
Probably my most frequently used daily oil.
Perfect for when I want to harmonize with nature. Deep Green Soul.
After kenmei same for me. Third would be a tie between one of ensar two Sri Lanka vs kiyosumi/kinam rouge, abdus selam.

Come to think of it we should start a thread. Most used oils top 3 and with what rough frequency? Thoughts @Simla House @kesiro ? I think our board is prime for trying something new and to bring the commmunity closer to tether more often.