SOTD

kesiro

Well-Known Member
I think you are right on Shabby. For reasons I cannot explain, Taha's oils usually do take several days, and sometimes several weeks to properly open up. My completely unscientific explanation is that this phenomenon is due to different ambient temperatures and environments while being shipped. I experience this to some extent with most oils to a lesser or greater degree.
And yes, for sure Borneo oils seem to be quite susceptible to oxidation while Vietnam and Merauke not so much. Not exactly sure where Walla Patta stands as I have never had any sample vials of these oils.
 

PEARL

Well-Known Member
@kesiro cobb osteotome I agree that oxidation can occur in oud oils but I wonder about how fast it occurs and how long it would take an oil to have appreciable loss of notes or performance due to oxidation. I think we have to assess the age of the sample, the conditions of which it was stored in and where @Nikhil S got the sample. I think this would give us a better picture to say whether or not his findings could possibly be attributed to oxidation. Speaking from a pseudo-scientific gobbledygook perspective I have a theory, other than oxidation, as to why oils can thicken over time. There was a picture at the end of Ensar's video for Sultan Salman or another of his Sri Lankan oils IIRC, it showed a greenish oil that had what I'd only think were big bubbles of air or water droplets suspended in the oil, it was beautiful, I took a screen shot but can't find it. My theory is that even after proper curing oils will still have a microscopic amount of that air or water droplets that continue to come out over time leading to a thicker oil, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. Here is a pic of one of Adam's oils that shows this to a much, much lesser effect.

@Shabby I agree that some of AA's oils have a relatively longer learning curve as I've experienced that myself. His oils are among the Haut de la par tie supérieure when it comes to scent profile, but to be frank I have tried a few that I didn't think had good longevity, and I wondered why. Don't get me wrong, longevity and projection aren't necessarily indicators of an oils or the feedstocks quality, but it is something many go for and makes an oil more economical in itself. For example, take two great oils-1 requires one swipe for the desired effect the other takes three, the former oil will last three times as long making it more economical over the life of the bottle. Speaking from a pseudo-scientic gobbledygook perspective IMO any given specific sample of agarwood would contain a finite amount of sesquiterpenes, oxygenated compounds, monoterpene, chromone derivatives and other fragrant molecules. Consequently, distillation of that agarwood would draw out a finite amount(or a high % thereof) of said constituents. Take for example something @Ensar Ferrari stated about Chiem Po Chai and how it was a NON-efficient distillation whose method killed the yield. If he was able to draw out that same finite amount(or a high % thereof) of fragrant molecules over a reduced yield, then we are talking about an oil that is "nutrient dense". Now think about a distillation method that boost the yield, I wonder if drawing out that same infinite amount(or a high % thereof) of fragrant molecules over an increased yield actually results in an oil that is "nutrient poor"? Or is it that the boosting method finds a way to draw out an even higher percentage of that finite amount, maybe I'm overthinking or flat out wrong but I do wonder why some of the oils don't last that long.
 

kesiro

Well-Known Member
Pearlissomo! Very intereting and insightfull post. I have a lot of comments but this damn pesky day job is keeping me from making them.
A healthy swig of Kombucha and back into the trenches I go.
 

Nikhil S

Well-Known Member
@PEARL Great thoughts sir. I appreciate your time.

I have a few thoughts of mine as well. I am not even half there as you wonderful folks in the oud journey. I always listen to advice and never jump on to quick conclusions (usually) but I have my share of deep experiences and beliefs which also evolve with time. But in case of Ouds I follow certain tradition. My nose is to be blamed. What makes Kyara so special ? What makes Agallocha so special ? I believe its because they were original. Not manhandled. Not about technological advances. And then the I am thinking about the historic oils which came even before these legends were born. Its not about longevity at all. Its about the soul of oud. The finer and the gross complexities which tickle our nose. I think thats what people refer to as...Oud is talking. Its not about blending, its not about concentrations. Its more about sourcing and aesthetically preserving its natural essence. And I feel each Oud has a special quality. But they need atleast a minimum of 4 to 6 hours to be studied. I treat my oils like babies lol. I preserve them well. I have samples from Feel Oud, Agarwood Indonesia, Imperial Oud, Treasure Oud, Agar Aura and a lot many private oils even Sultan Bhai's attars. By God s will all of them are still pristine. Oxidation has been kind to me most of the times. Infact some of the junglee Ouds I ve bought from the fresh distillations in Upper Assam have greatly evolved with time. They ve never thickened into Oud Wax. These are my feelings I wanted to share. Sorry for deviating from the core subject but I would love to know your thoughts. And I thank you gentlemen for your valuable inputs. You ve been very kind.
 

PEARL

Well-Known Member
@Nikhil S right on course my dear. My experience parallels your own and while I can only assume that oxidation has occurred, there's been no appreciable deterioration in scent or performance in my bottles or samples. That's precisely why it's odd to hear others say it so often, especially concerning longevity. I agree with you in that it's all about the soul of the oil as there are strong projecting, long lasting and thick, pretty oils that are totally devoid of life. And like you, that 4-6 hour minimum is a requirement for me, oils that can't do that leave me nonplussed.
 

Shabby

Well-Known Member
@Nikhil S The soul of the oud is everything - and just as the soul of a person is unique and shines forth when it realises itself in its own originality, without trying to be anything else, so too can an oud display its brilliance when the artisan gives each unique nuance of the raw material its due attention.

Plato said 'Beauty is the splendour of the True'; so if the artisan is true to the wood, then he or she maximises the potential of the oud to be beautiful.
 

Nikhil S

Well-Known Member
@Nikhil S The soul of the oud is everything - and just as the soul of a person is unique and shines forth when it realises itself in its own originality, without trying to be anything else, so too can an oud display its brilliance when the artisan gives each unique nuance of the raw material its due attention.

Plato said 'Beauty is the splendour of the True'; so if the artisan is true to the wood, then he or she maximises the potential of the oud to be beautiful.
Wise words sir !
 

Nikhil S

Well-Known Member
@Nikhil S right on course my dear. My experience parallels your own and while I can only assume that oxidation has occurred, there's been no appreciable deterioration in scent or performance in my bottles or samples. That's precisely why it's odd to hear others say it so often, especially concerning longevity. I agree with you in that it's all about the soul of the oil as there are strong projecting, long lasting and thick, pretty oils that are totally devoid of life. And like you, that 4-6 hour minimum is a requirement for me, oils that can't do that leave me nonplussed.
Couldnt say it better sir. Thank you.